Star Sonata
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Working Design on the new classes
http://forum.starsonata.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19248
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Author:  denedin707 [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:31 am ]
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All I can say is excelent job, this is fantastic!

And my main will still be sniper, but I have my eye on another class :)

Keep up the great work

~bach

Author:  mincher2k4 [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:51 am ]
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I still think SD should get beefed

And i picked Gunner


-Minch-

Author:  BAM5992 [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:01 pm ]
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mincher2k4 wrote:
I still think SD should get beefed

And i picked Gunner


-Minch-


thank you^^^

and slicer, your wrong

1 main skill up to 20
1 sub skill up to 20
3 sub sub skills up to 20 each

210 sp to max each, and theres 5 of them, so thats 1050 total sp. And remember that we get sp back when the skills are actually revamped.

210 back for my FA, and 210 back for my SD, and the 250 I have atm, im almost maxed out right there

Author:  Hermes [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:12 pm ]
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I only have one dislike with the new skills... I wish that MF and Zerk would be made separate....... this breaks my zerk heart :(

Author:  shiNm4 [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:23 pm ]
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RISC wrote:
blahblah0924 wrote:
Im a sniper at heart so I went with sniper for now. But i think another 20% elec loss is just nuts. Snipers already require extra bank and regen to deal with the 40% which feels about right if you do want to increase it some maybe put it closer to 50% and go from there. I think 1.5X the normal elec cost is more than enough penalty.


There is currently no increased elec cost for snipers. It may say so in the description, but it isn't functional.

-Slicer


then why do Admins beef the penalty? I would suggest testing the old one at first :?
I thought the elec cost mod was allready in, maybe cause of the exc combo nerf that was made at that time too and reduced its elec bonus
thanks for the Info Slicer

Author:  bass [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:30 pm ]
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I chose berserkser, holding aggro and being a tank sounds cool.

Author:  JeffL [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:07 pm ]
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The resist bonus on MF will be applied after regular resists. So if your ship gives you 50% resist and you have 50% resist from Impervious armor, then your damage from a 1000 point shot would be = 1000 * 0.50 * 0.50 = 250

All MF% stacks, so a Berserker with lvl 20 Berserker and level 20 Arsenal will get 5 shots. There will also potentially be ships, augs, and equipment that give some MF%, that could give Berserker and Gunner or extra shot.

Berserker is getting a huge bank bonus. 10%/lvl is a 3x bank, on top of which I will be increasing the energy bank size on most energy banks in the future. This is so that if he's solo, he can unload great rains of fiery death, and then go and fill up again at a sun or wait to regen. Also, engineer is getting beams that transfer electric, so in a fleet, Berserker can get a lot of electric boost from a supporting engineer who is spec'd out
as an "electrical engineer".

The range skill on sniper will take the range bonuses and multiply them by min(100-current speed, 100)/100. A shot from standstill will get full bonuses and a shot when traveling 100 or faster will get no range bonuses.

The .5% to all tweaks to Engineer is similar to imperial tweaking. NT's, AT, Station Tweak, Slave Tweak.

The 5% to transference tweaks on Shield Monkey will be stronger tweak effects on things like Monkey Shield Transference, which we will probably add more of. There is also the thought of offensive transference weapons that give negative shield regen tweaks or negative shield max tweaks.

The firing vis on ships is currently 2 seconds, but we are going to increase it to 3 or 4 seconds. I would also like to make the amount of vis a property of weapons, so some weapons can be more stealthy than others.

Slicer is correct in his calculations.

I honestly am afraid that Berserker is very overpowered with these new skills. He is getting a huge boost from what a MF/zerk is now, but people still think Sniper is better, so I guess we will see. Remember that a MF with resists rather than shield gen is going to be about twice as easy to heal and he is also getting +2% damage/level, which is half the DPE advantage sniper is getting.

Author:  25866 [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:23 pm ]
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I didn't see new skills that affected bases. Will those skills be staying the same?

Author:  denedin707 [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:26 pm ]
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I'm considering switching to seer.... but I have only one ? Can you give some insight into some of these newer weapons and the tweaks they'll give?

Author:  marcussmythe [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Requisite Selfish Sniper Post

Though this is from the PoV of a Sniper, I also include anyone without vast piles of unspent XPs to pour into the new skills.

You know, the people under level 1000. Im told some play this game, and even have paying subscriptions. Maybe you didnt notice?

Let me first say that I like so, so much about the system and the idea. I was a staunch supporter until I did the numbers.

Under the old system, you had at most 3 skills at level 20. Once
refunded, that represents 1-20 bought 3 times, or 630 Skill Points.

Thats 126 Levels on specialty skills. Seems like a decent amount.

Under the new system, there are 5 categories, each going to level 20, but with costs adding, such that its essentially one skill going from 1-100 at incremental costs. This is, thus, 5050 skill points.

1010 Levels. One Thousand and Ten. IE: Your leveling off of Icepicks near the end. Probably MF Picks. And you did have to pick up other minor trivial skills like the ability to fly your ship and fire your guns, too, ya know? So.. maybe lvl 1500 or 1600 to max out these new skills.

But what do we get for our investment? What happens to the guy with no free skill points (maybe he bought Zen of Clarity, assuming foolishly that it did something)?

Well, he gets his 630 skill points back.

He buys the new skills:
Combat Focus 1-20
Sniper Class 1-14

Cause thats all he can afford.... (I have no idea how youll price this, but if it costs less or the same credits, Ill be pleased. If he gets back the credits he spent on his old skills, Ill also be pleased... and somewhat suprised)

So what did he have before, Mr. Sniper?
He had +140% Damage, +100% Recoil, +40% Range, +60% Tracking, +40% Elec Usage, +40% Thrust, +40% Turning, +100% Shields, +60% Shield Regen, and -30% Speed

He is now the proud owner of...
+86% Damage, +14% Recoil, +40% Shields, and +36% Elec Usage

So... ROF goes up, DPE goes (WAY) down, Speed goes up (good!), ship gets clumsier (not a huge deal) Shields are slashed, and sheild regen is also bleeding in the street.

Umm... wow. Would you take that trade, if it was offered for free? Me neither.


Now, let us assume, instead.. sufficient unspent XPs that, coupled with your refund, you can buy EVERY SNIPER SKILL. We will also assume your in a heavy fighter, and willing to do all your fighting while at speed 0 (Boy, your going to tank alot of damage now that you arent kiting. Pity you lost your shield regen)

The '5050 Skill Point Package) includes...
A gain of +20% Range, +40% Cloaking, 2 seconds less of firing visibility, and loss of a 30% Speed Penalty (this last one is pretty good!). Also +20% Damage, going from +140% to +160%

A loss of 60% of the shield buff (A 20K shield is now 14K)
A loss of the entire 60% Sheild Regen Buff (400 RPS is now 250)
The entire 40% Turning and Thrust Buff (not huge. Most ships are agile enough, most days)
And an increase of elec cost from 100 (assuming the current penalty isnt actually having an in-game effect) to 160. (would be 140 if the current penalty actually had an in-game effect) This gives him less DPE, even with the damage buff.

Dear Mr. Developer... if that proposed change was offered for sale, I would not buy it. If it were a gift, I would not accept it. If it were a threat, I would fight it.

Please reconsider taking 3 skills that cost 600ish skill points and turning them into 5 skills that cost 5000ish skill points and are worse.

I know Sniper is the everyone-is-one-their-too-good class, but most of that is, IMHO, based on your current weapon power to damage situation. With the hideous power consumption on W20 guns, all that matters is DPE. The MF and SD advantages vanish.
Im also given to understand your planning on changing the energy sources in game.

Im also given to understand your considering changing how much power certain weapons consume.

Any.. one.. of the two above may redress the sniper/MF/speed demon imbalances. Any two of the above, taken independently of one another, would probably (given the history of MMO 'balancing changes') be too much. Taken with the skill changes above? Run for cover.

Now, obviously I cant speak to the Lvl 1000+ Everything-20 My-Death-Striker-Isnt-Good-Enough-And-Panthers-Cost-Too-Much-To-Be-Worth-It crowd... but given the history of SS, theyll speak for themselves, and youll listen. So Ill post selfishly, and speak for myself, in my situation.

Thank you for your time.

Ohh, for funsies:
Assuming the generic weapon is 100 damage and 100 elec.
New Sniper: 1.625 Damage per Energy
New Speed Demon: 1.6
New Berzerker: 1.4
Gunner: 2.2 (if he can find a mining weapon).

The gunner numbers might become much better, depending on how their resistance reduction works.

Author:  anoyingemo [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:18 pm ]
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Does this mean we get an augmenter reset? (Sorry if this has already been mentioned)

Author:  JeffL [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:04 pm ]
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Except for sniper, the aim to is make a char with about 1.5 to 2 maxed sub-skills about equal to the current system and then anything over that is more power. I think you will agree that fully maxed out, almost every class is a significant improvement over the current classes.

Since sniper is so obviously overpowered now, we are trying to be careful with it here. We can always improve it later. Better that than making it too powerful now and having to nerf it when everyone just chooses sniper again.

As for skill points, we will be offering free skill resets for a limited time after the skills go in, and class-specific augs will be made non-sticky so that they can be unequipped.

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