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Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:43 pm
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wdn68 wrote:
tell you what you guys wont be happy till all skills are wiped to zero and its just items that give the bonus's


I'm a SD and i cant do any top end stuff at all and i do know how to play this game

if anyone's firing at range as a SD then there is a loss of other skills some may choose to aug that way

my Rossie goes 268 that's with max in micro warp too so where you get this 500+ speed i dunno.

whats broken is the constant slagging off other skills in a hope of trying to change game content.

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(who all of them are broken as hell, have 500-650 hull, fit PoT, go 500+ speed, do more dps than any other skill, and have more dpe than any other skill too in a LF).


Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:51 pm
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Hokage wrote:
wdn68 wrote:
tell you what you guys wont be happy till all skills are wiped to zero and its just items that give the bonus's


I'm a SD and i cant do any top end stuff at all and i do know how to play this game

if anyone's firing at range as a SD then there is a loss of other skills some may choose to aug that way

my Rossie goes 268 that's with max in micro warp too so where you get this 500+ speed i dunno.

whats broken is the constant slagging off other skills in a hope of trying to change game content.

Quote:
(who all of them are broken as hell, have 500-650 hull, fit PoT, go 500+ speed, do more dps than any other skill, and have more dpe than any other skill too in a LF).


indeed, Sd LF's need a looking at, wtf is this +1% hull bonus anyway

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Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:08 am
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+1% Hull Bonus in an LF was added once the admins realized that SDs have no space for ANYTHING in LFs.

Also, SD's in LF are only broken at the top end, when i had a Locution i wasnt broken.

I could kill BGs and stuff, but nothing amazing.

Its the top end GEAR that is not balanced.


Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:56 am
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BAM5992 wrote:
indeed, Sd LF's need a looking at, wtf is this +1% hull bonus anyway


For what its worth, many SDs use HF anyways... and when I originally proposed that bonus, it came with a +1% hull bonus to HF for combat focus as well. Jeff rejected the combat focus bonus at the time, probably due to the fact that about 80% of the combat characters in the game were sniper then. However, given the recent popularity of recon focus and SD, he might reconsider giving the hull bonus to CF/HF, which is by the books the least powerful focus skill right now.


Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:00 am
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Can you make that just affect SD then, and not recon focus. Otherwise seers will not have any space, and trust me, we pretty much have to use a LF.If your goign to remove it from recon focus, at least add it as a seer skill.

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Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:05 am
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LichG wrote:
Can you make that just affect SD then, and not recon focus. Otherwise seers will not have any space, and trust me, we pretty much have to use a LF.If your goign to remove it from recon focus, at least add it as a seer skill.


I meant "in addition to", not either or. I doubt Recon Focus will lose the hull bonus at this point. Oh, and by the way Lich, you will be losing your expander in the next patch (it will be freighter only), so better start rethinking your setup. :)


Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:10 am
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which expander is that?

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Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:31 am
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HAL wrote:
LichG wrote:
Can you make that just affect SD then, and not recon focus. Otherwise seers will not have any space, and trust me, we pretty much have to use a LF.If your goign to remove it from recon focus, at least add it as a seer skill.


I meant "in addition to", not either or. I doubt Recon Focus will lose the hull bonus at this point. Oh, and by the way Lich, you will be losing your expander in the next patch (it will be freighter only), so better start rethinking your setup. :)

I wondered how long until admins noticed. I designed my setup to be able to run without that expander, still, that hurts. I've been using that expander ever since I created combat shield monkey.

ERMAN it was Merchant Extension Extra spcae 35, size 5 and needed MFM 10. It used to need merchant but in the skill revamp admins screwed it up, so i carried on using it. No matter, PPE is fine.

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Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:36 am
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I've noticed no one seems to really point this out. The only reason, well the main reason so many SDs have great range and dpe.... is the zeus+ along with other + god augs got a major beef.

I can almost guarantee that most SDs who seem to be 'broken', have at least one of those augs in their setup... because it negates dogfighting giving - range. It gives a huge bonus to elec, helping with SD's sustained dps/better dpe.


Now, I realize a lot of other classes use zeus+s, but I feel it's important to note that.

~bach


Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:48 am
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hehe so you bach say that zeus+ is the broken aug because it gives the range, yet alby aug gives more range. zeus+ gives more dpe, but alby has same elec regen% so energy will regen as fast.

alby aug in a sd has WAY more dps than zeus+ and i'll tell you why. It gives ROF which increases the shot per second which results in doing more critical hits. notice it also gives tracking and shield, so it hs 3 times as better stats as zeus+.

zeus+ cant work alone, but the combination of zeus+ and alby aug makes the sd skill too broken in my opinion.


Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:08 pm
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Both the Zeus+ and the Alby aug are insanely good indeed.


Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:10 pm
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The Voomy One wrote:
Both the Zeus+ and the Alby aug are insanely good indeed.


and very hard to get. the zeus+ aug is worth like 12-15 bil and the alby is a rare drop, not to mention that you need piracy 20 to use it, which is even more rare.

please stop nerfing things. make harder content if you feel the current stuff isnt strong enough competition.

-ERMAN

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Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:57 pm
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wasup999999 wrote:
SD is broken by a few different things, mainly that it is still very easy to be good as SD with a heavy fighter skill wise.

The Zebra:
Theres no viable weakness to it, the only resists that are under 45% is radiation and transferrence, neither of which are used by AI or players for that madder. Has the most hull of all HF's, is 2nd fastest of all the HF's (margin of 5 from the reaver [dont count super phunka]). The mere fact that it has so much space allows people to use Giga GnT's and OS or Giga engines.

The Zeus+ aug:
Stats of Zeus vs Zeus+:
Code:
Zeus (Nov.2007)    Damage +30%, Energy Recharge +36%, Range +5%    19    10
Zeus+ (Nov.2007)    Damage +35%, Energy Recharge +40%, Range +20%    19    9

Differences:
+5% damage, +4% energy recharge, +15% range

Due to the fact that 0% of the energy given by this aug is taken away by other stats on it, it allows for powering of extremely high EPS weapons (such as TT+) at high ROF. The range bonus given from a normal to a + is a bit excessive.

Looked at against the alby aug:
Code:
Shield +60%, Energy Recharge +40%, Vis +125%, Tracking +34%, Rate of Fire +22%, Range +22%

Alby in the end only gives ~25% extra elec (assuming AT 23, IT 3) vs 79% (assuming AT23, IT 3). The range is negligably different from the Zeus+. The ending DPS is +43.56% for the Alby and +69.3% for the Zeus+ (AT23, IT 3). Overall, shields are not that big of deal, due to the fact that a PtE can give just the same effect, if not better if shields are needed. The biggest gain for an Albatross Aug is the tracking it gives, and due to the fact that it is a rare uber drop and requires an even rarer skill to get, it should have a little over the Zeus+.


I'm going to see if i can FRAPS my MF killing some SD's in arena.

~Edit: Compressing to MPEG, 15mins for it to finish and I'll post the link.

~Edit2: Yay video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waewTX4Vnvs.

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Last edited by wasup999999 on Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:28 pm
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i propose SD gets the Base Crit hit chance, It then to me will balance alot out, THe reason im so ffective is i Crit u then tow u way out, so i say 2% Crit Hit Chance All around the board...Zeus+ is fine, 4.5bil is what i saw someone paying yesterday for one 5 of them +zeus + mission -another 5bil.....


If u nerf the Alby ill just move right along to the pte...

Shodaime you are very diffrent in a good way, dont take this wrong and i still love u in all.....

But when u was SD u loved it didnt say anything ....when u turned Besker u complained


Lich - Same for u(as i said to Shod), Im not sure what u mean by SD is cheap, Bc lets do some math, Wont say aug setup and i dont expect u 2 say it but 2 of my augs No there not albys Cost 55bil for 2 augs, AND my Equpiment Not Cheap

also lets talk seer its broken as fuck, i could 1 shot baron all day...now i wouldnt say its more expensive then my setup, it looks to be the same....so...


Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:52 pm
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If anything needs to be done, remove the critical hit buff or reduce it and apply a negative critical hit effect time bonus to SD.

If you have to nerf Zeus+, reduce the range bonus to around +10%. If you have to nerf the Alby aug, reduce the shield bonus and nerf the stats a little in each area. I personally, however, do not believe they need a nerf considering every other class works fine with these augs outside of SD -- if there is any issue with SDs using these augs its in relation to the capabilities a SD has with ranging, reducing the need for shields. Maybe SD could take a total -60% range instead of -40% range?

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Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:04 pm
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