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Team:
Rank: Director Main: Elryk Level: 4472 Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:34 am Posts: 621 |
The Voomy One wrote: About the Vulture. Yes it has a 4th aug slot but notice that DS has been beefed too. Vulture has lower hull, lower speed, lower resists, no built in OL so less damage (although it can get better range). There are still come changes being made, we discussed the Vulture/DS yesterday on admin chat. The gap between the two ships will become less though. Mercurian gear has also been discussed. I believe it's their long range that makes them so big, Im sure there will be some tweaking there. What good are balance sheets if you have to manually tweak every item that is used? Doesn't that leave all the un-used gear still worthless as it is now? Would it not be better to find out why the balance sheets keep requiring you to tweak items after they are re-made? _________________ Main Characters: Elryk, The Dentist, Pipthetroll |
Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:12 am |
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Contributor
Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: Hober Mallow Level: 4888 Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm Posts: 3191 |
Kyrle wrote: The Voomy One wrote: About the Vulture. Yes it has a 4th aug slot but notice that DS has been beefed too. Vulture has lower hull, lower speed, lower resists, no built in OL so less damage (although it can get better range). There are still come changes being made, we discussed the Vulture/DS yesterday on admin chat. The gap between the two ships will become less though. Mercurian gear has also been discussed. I believe it's their long range that makes them so big, Im sure there will be some tweaking there. What good are balance sheets if you have to manually tweak every item that is used? Doesn't that leave all the un-used gear still worthless as it is now? Would it not be better to find out why the balance sheets keep requiring you to tweak items after they are re-made? The amount of agreement i have with this post is so high that i cant even express it. Please do fix that, i use some non-standard stuff on my account (Which i have stopped paying for at the moment.) _________________ http://www.starsonata.com/suggestions |
Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:16 am |
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Site Admin / Dev Team
Main: PhoenixSun2
Level: 1392 Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:07 am Posts: 1935 |
Kyrle wrote: The Voomy One wrote: About the Vulture. Yes it has a 4th aug slot but notice that DS has been beefed too. Vulture has lower hull, lower speed, lower resists, no built in OL so less damage (although it can get better range). There are still come changes being made, we discussed the Vulture/DS yesterday on admin chat. The gap between the two ships will become less though. Mercurian gear has also been discussed. I believe it's their long range that makes them so big, Im sure there will be some tweaking there. What good are balance sheets if you have to manually tweak every item that is used? Doesn't that leave all the un-used gear still worthless as it is now? Would it not be better to find out why the balance sheets keep requiring you to tweak items after they are re-made? When he says tweak he means we need to tweak the items to fit into the new balance formulas. They have a certain power rating they need to hit so we need to make sure they hit it. |
Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:50 am |
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Team:
Rank: Main: Gunslinger Myrtok Level: 2640 Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:43 am Posts: 1965 |
The Voomy One wrote: About the Vulture. Yes it has a 4th aug slot but notice that DS has been beefed too. Vulture has lower hull, lower speed, lower resists, no built in OL so less damage (although it can get better range) On live the vulture has higher speed and much higher capacity than the DS. Does this mean vulture is getting a speed and capacity nerf in exchange for an aug slot, or that the DS is getting a MASSIVE beef to make it overtake the vulture in capacity? _________________ pip8786 wrote: Dorin Nube... you win the best post on the forums ever award. Well done. HAL wrote: You are greedy and ignorant, you can't have everything in life for free. |
Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:33 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Councilor Main: The Voomy One Level: 1337 Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:06 am Posts: 4137 |
Vulture has 9 more speed then DS and 120 more hull space. On test that will change. The DS will have more hull but the Vulture will be faster, my idea was that Vulture would get 200 hull while the DS will have 350 hull. Balance sheet didnt like those stats though but we'll sort that out.
Current stats on these ships on test are not the final stats. |
Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:05 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Main: Gunslinger Myrtok Level: 2640 Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:43 am Posts: 1965 |
The Voomy One wrote: Vulture has 9 more speed then DS and 120 more hull space. On test that will change. The DS will have more hull but the Vulture will be faster, my idea was that Vulture would get 200 hull while the DS will have 350 hull. Balance sheet didnt like those stats though but we'll sort that out. Current stats on these ships on test are not the final stats. Thank you, Voomy, for clearing that up. TBH, I'm hoping the balance sheet is telling you that a T20 ship can't possibly have 200 hull. Even a basic T20 (actually T19 on test) wep like a Vmag takes 289 space. _________________ pip8786 wrote: Dorin Nube... you win the best post on the forums ever award. Well done. HAL wrote: You are greedy and ignorant, you can't have everything in life for free. |
Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:30 pm |
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Site Admin / Dev Team
Team:
Rank: Director Main: Jeff_L Level: 1969 Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:21 am Posts: 3894 Location: Santa Clara, CA |
Nearly all the light fighters have gotten significant hull boosts, including both the Vulture and DS.
As for tweaking things within the new formulas, the formulas say how much total power an item has and how much power each stat on the item contributes. Within that, there are endless possibilities for adding to one stat and taking away from another. Also, there are some things that can not be simply balanced, like tweak effects and the value of built-in items. For those, I just have to try to pick a number which represents how powerful those are to keep the item balanced. _________________ For support, please create a support ticket here and I will get back to you as soon as possible. About Star Sonata. |
Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:07 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Councilor Main: The Voomy One Level: 1337 Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:06 am Posts: 4137 |
Quote: TBH, I'm hoping the balance sheet is telling you that a T20 ship can't possibly have 200 hull. Even a basic T20 (actually T19 on test) wep like a Vmag takes 289 space. Well LFs are mostly meant for recon focus which gets a hull bonus when using LFs so you will have a lot more then just 200 hull even when not counting hull increasing augs. We'll see what it ends up with. Dont want to make the Vulture too close to the DS since the cost and rarity is very different. |
Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:32 pm |
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Main: Stoooch
Level: 17 Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:41 pm Posts: 280 |
The Voomy One wrote: Quote: TBH, I'm hoping the balance sheet is telling you that a T20 ship can't possibly have 200 hull. Even a basic T20 (actually T19 on test) wep like a Vmag takes 289 space. Well LFs are mostly meant for recon focus which gets a hull bonus when using LFs so you will have a lot more then just 200 hull even when not counting hull increasing augs. We'll see what it ends up with. Dont want to make the Vulture too close to the DS since the cost and rarity is very different. lol 200+20+40+40. That is 300 space if you use 2 super combis on a ship with 200 base space. And no one really uses more than 2 super combis on a ship. I am hoping that 289 size on a venu mag isnt final. And I apologise for commenting on unfinalised stats but when an admin tries to justify the stats I see my way clear to criticise the stats. _________________ "It is a pity that we fault works of art for being overrated when really it is the critics who have done us the disservice." Fuck the Cosine! |
Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:21 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Director Main: Elryk Level: 4472 Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:34 am Posts: 621 |
JeffL wrote: Nearly all the light fighters have gotten significant hull boosts, including both the Vulture and DS. As for tweaking things within the new formulas, the formulas say how much total power an item has and how much power each stat on the item contributes. Within that, there are endless possibilities for adding to one stat and taking away from another. Also, there are some things that can not be simply balanced, like tweak effects and the value of built-in items. For those, I just have to try to pick a number which represents how powerful those are to keep the item balanced. So the balance sheets don't basically generate stats for you? Then were do these seemingly arbitrary numbers coming from on some of theses items (like merc gears size)? Surely you guys didn't put those sizes into your formulas just to check the power and accepted that they were going to be insanely large, did you? I don't mean to criticize your methods here. I'm just wondering why you are tweaking individual items rather than tweaking the system that puts out these item stats that need tweaking. Ships with built in items and similar situations I can understand, that's not really what I'm commenting about. _________________ Main Characters: Elryk, The Dentist, Pipthetroll |
Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:10 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Councilor Main: Trevor Level: 5369 Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:01 pm Posts: 4162 Location: Alabama |
Stooch wrote: The Voomy One wrote: Quote: TBH, I'm hoping the balance sheet is telling you that a T20 ship can't possibly have 200 hull. Even a basic T20 (actually T19 on test) wep like a Vmag takes 289 space. Well LFs are mostly meant for recon focus which gets a hull bonus when using LFs so you will have a lot more then just 200 hull even when not counting hull increasing augs. We'll see what it ends up with. Dont want to make the Vulture too close to the DS since the cost and rarity is very different. lol 200+20+40+40. That is 300 space if you use 2 super combis on a ship with 200 base space. And no one really uses more than 2 super combis on a ship. I am hoping that 289 size on a venu mag isnt final. And I apologise for commenting on unfinalised stats but when an admin tries to justify the stats I see my way clear to criticise the stats. i guess caly+ augs are coming into style! _________________ Stay strong, live long, and walk humbly. |
Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:51 pm |
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Site Admin / Dev Team
Team:
Rank: Director Main: Jeff_L Level: 1969 Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:21 am Posts: 3894 Location: Santa Clara, CA |
The new balance system generates the stats from categories and some inputted numbers. For example, size is a function of many things, include power, size class, size per power, and depending on the item, either total bank or total range. In the old system, size was just a function of tech level and there was few variations on that. Long range guns are now much bigger in size and short range guns are now much smaller in size. This adds more variety. I will look at the Mercurian Pulse and if I decide it's too big, then I can either reduce the range or change it's size class which would make it both smaller and less powerful.
_________________ For support, please create a support ticket here and I will get back to you as soon as possible. About Star Sonata. |
Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:20 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Councilor Main: The Voomy One Level: 1337 Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:06 am Posts: 4137 |
Quote: So the balance sheets don't basically generate stats for you? If the balance sheet filled in all the stats all items would be identical you know. What the balance sheet does is if I for example increase the range of a weapon it will automaticly increase the size of it too. Like Pip said earlier we have a power rating number that everything needs to hit. If we make a item too good the power rating will be too high, we then have to tweak the stats until the power rating is what it should be. The whole idea with the balance sheet is that if the power rating number is where it should be the item in question will have a good balance. |
Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:09 am |
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Main: Stoooch
Level: 17 Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:41 pm Posts: 280 |
Personally I am terrified to see the outcome after this. It is going to be a completely new game.
_________________ "It is a pity that we fault works of art for being overrated when really it is the critics who have done us the disservice." Fuck the Cosine! |
Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:34 am |
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Team:
Rank: Councilor Main: The Voomy One Level: 1337 Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:06 am Posts: 4137 |
Personally I feel that the changes are in reality pretty minor, they wont change anything. You will be able to do pretty much anything you could before, with some tweaking of your setup of course.
You wont have to change how you play much, minor tactic changes for some. Im very excited to see how next uni will be. A lot of fun and interesting changes. New uni shape and ownership rules are what I look forward to the most though. |
Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:53 am |
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