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Post Class Rebalance Proposal: Seer
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Seer:

Seers can achieve quite significant DPS, but it is also very situational and surviving in fights with a lot of ambient damage is a problem. Our plan is to make it possible for a PvE-oriented Seer to be a big asset to any squad by giving them the ability to inflict significant debuffs to enemies. While it will be a Gunner's job to make sure a target dies quickly, a seer can make sure that his target doesn't kill his friends as efficiently as it might want to. In order to counter ambient damage, a seer will also have a chance to avoid untargeted damage while being unseen.

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Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:04 pm
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Post Re: Class Rebalance Proposal: Seer
Ehh. Still kind of put seers no where from right now for themselves but for others. Still would put seers behind in the lower levels of being able to do jack. Seer mines are to most pathetic add-ons to seer also with the buff wep's after they were nerfed of how long they last makes it pretty useless to use since the seer it self can dps pretty well doing more damage than the extra damage gained from whatever he is beefing. The changes mainly only make it a lot efficient for group content but still doesn't get anywhere from right now for solo content.

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Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:14 pm
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Post Re: Class Rebalance Proposal: Seer
s_m_w wrote:
Top Post

Seer:

Seers can achieve quite significant DPS, but it is also very situational and surviving in fights with a lot of ambient damage is a problem. Our plan is to make it possible for a PvE-oriented Seer to be a big asset to any squad by giving them the ability to inflict significant debuffs to enemies. While it will be a Gunner's job to make sure a target dies quickly, a seer can make sure that his target doesn't kill his friends as efficiently as it might want to. In order to counter ambient damage, a seer will also have a chance to avoid untargeted damage while being unseen.



We need a bonus to elec tempering to be even close to competing with any other classes sustained dps.

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Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:32 pm
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Post Re: Class Rebalance Proposal: Seer
Dodging hits when "Not Visible" or "Not Being Targeted" kind of fit along with the seer class really well. Though this would make them rather scarry in pvp when one can disappear faster than the other can target.

Although back to PvE, like mentioned previously. Unless the de-buff weapon is strong enough/last long enough. There isnt a point in using it.


Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:41 pm
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Post Re: Class Rebalance Proposal: Seer
lonedragon09 wrote:
Dodging hits when "Not Visible" or "Not Being Targeted" kind of fit along with the seer class really well. Though this would make them rather scarry in pvp when one can disappear faster than the other can target.

Although back to PvE, like mentioned previously. Unless the de-buff weapon is strong enough/last long enough. There isnt a point in using it.


The debuffs will be very useful indeed. To give one example, it is planned that a certain Seer debuff will reduce a single target's DPS to the point that the Seer replaces a 3rd ShM on the run. The general theme for Seer debuffs will be neutralizing as opposed to vulnerability-themed debuffs that you would expect from a Gunner.

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Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:44 pm
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Post Re: Class Rebalance Proposal: Seer
I really like the sound of this. It's not at all related to how Seers currently play, but I still like the idea, and would be willing to change playstyle for squad content. Seer can still help clear spawn with one-shooting, and can still PvP with current playstyle. This would just change playstyle for the big bosses, which sounds fine enough. (Hmm, wonder if/how this would effect PvB... Please keep that in mind, devs!)

As for Seer dps, I don't agree that they need to get elec temp. With a JOE and an Emp aug, you sustain very well. (No seer class DPS bonus comes from +ROF or MF). And since Snipers and Zerks use JOE and Emp Aug (or other -elec temp augs) to support their setups, why shouldn't seers have to?

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Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:12 am
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Post Re: Class Rebalance Proposal: Seer
ELITE wrote:
s_m_w wrote:
Top Post

Seer:

Seers can achieve quite significant DPS, but it is also very situational and surviving in fights with a lot of ambient damage is a problem. Our plan is to make it possible for a PvE-oriented Seer to be a big asset to any squad by giving them the ability to inflict significant debuffs to enemies. While it will be a Gunner's job to make sure a target dies quickly, a seer can make sure that his target doesn't kill his friends as efficiently as it might want to. In order to counter ambient damage, a seer will also have a chance to avoid untargeted damage while being unseen.



We need a bonus to elec tempering to be even close to competing with any other classes sustained dps.


I'm pretty sure that seers have more dpe than any other class, the only possible exception max anal snipers. I don't see why a seer should be the only class capable of powering without having to aug for it.

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Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:50 am
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Post Re: Class Rebalance Proposal: Seer
What changes might be made to uber galaxies that would make it easier for a seer to remain unseen? Avoiding environmental damage sounds nice, but what about places that put the seer into the bright right from the jump?


Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:56 pm
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Post Re: Class Rebalance Proposal: Seer
The Salty One wrote:
ELITE wrote:
s_m_w wrote:
Top Post

Seer:

Seers can achieve quite significant DPS, but it is also very situational and surviving in fights with a lot of ambient damage is a problem. Our plan is to make it possible for a PvE-oriented Seer to be a big asset to any squad by giving them the ability to inflict significant debuffs to enemies. While it will be a Gunner's job to make sure a target dies quickly, a seer can make sure that his target doesn't kill his friends as efficiently as it might want to. In order to counter ambient damage, a seer will also have a chance to avoid untargeted damage while being unseen.



We need a bonus to elec tempering to be even close to competing with any other classes sustained dps.


I'm pretty sure that seers have more dpe than any other class, the only possible exception max anal snipers. I don't see why a seer should be the only class capable of powering without having to aug for it.

|Because if you aug for it you are now the weakest in dps.

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Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:57 pm
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Post Re: Class Rebalance Proposal: Seer
yclepticon wrote:
lonedragon09 wrote:
Dodging hits when "Not Visible" or "Not Being Targeted" kind of fit along with the seer class really well. Though this would make them rather scarry in pvp when one can disappear faster than the other can target.

Although back to PvE, like mentioned previously. Unless the de-buff weapon is strong enough/last long enough. There isnt a point in using it.


The debuffs will be very useful indeed. To give one example, it is planned that a certain Seer debuff will reduce a single target's DPS to the point that the Seer replaces a 3rd ShM on the run. The general theme for Seer debuffs will be neutralizing as opposed to vulnerability-themed debuffs that you would expect from a Gunner.

This is still not a seer re balance its a quick add-on.

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Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:59 pm
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Post Re: Class Rebalance Proposal: Seer
I don't understand what you mean by a quick add-on. This is making an entirely new role for Seer in squad-based play (and unlike the viruses and mines before it, it'll actually make enough difference for people to want to use it). Meanwhile, Seer is not losing anything it currently has and is actually getting some damage reduction.

I did have a few other plans for Seer that didn't make it into this round of information... but I will leave those for another time. For now, please elaborate if you think the class needs something else.

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Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:01 pm
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Post Re: Class Rebalance Proposal: Seer
I support giving seer debuffing role for group content.

I don't like how seer skills support one-shotting setups. It limits their weaponry a lot. I suggest adding some +critical hit chance to class skills for allowing more 100% crit chance setups.

Some bosses have critical hit resistances. This is an issue for seer dps. How about seers ignoring critical hit resistances? This isn't a big issue and isn't necessary to adress though.

Some adjusts (beefs) to seer dps would be welcome.


Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:40 pm
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Post Re: Class Rebalance Proposal: Seer
yclepticon wrote:
I don't understand what you mean by a quick add-on. This is making an entirely new role for Seer in squad-based play (and unlike the viruses and mines before it, it'll actually make enough difference for people to want to use it). Meanwhile, Seer is not losing anything it currently has and is actually getting some damage reduction.

I did have a few other plans for Seer that didn't make it into this round of information... but I will leave those for another time. For now, please elaborate if you think the class needs something else.

Well the seer it self lacks its own suitability and in those big content like t22 it would just be constantly dead to even help with debuffing. Only reason why seer dps can go higher than other classes(besides sniper cause the dps on PZHT is just incomparable) is because seer aug for purly crit str, damage, and other things to increase their dps. If a seer trys to aug to gain the ability to survive or to be able to semi power they now will lose their dps prowess and be now weaker than the other classes in dps. They need an increase like; some power beef or some regular survivabilty increase. Not dodging since that wont happen in in what the you are adding on to seer with debuffing cause they would be visable enough where dodging wouldn't occur.

Today's seer the ones that actually aren't noob has to go DPS so they wont even be able to stay hidden for dodging to take place. The dodging ability would help alot for DPH seer's but the problem is that due to other ships resistances now of days and how player also aug with some resistance it hurts DPH. The resistance cuts off a good amount of Damage for just per a hit that the pay off of what they can do in return of you exposing yourself isn't worth it for the seer. Unless seers gain some kind of resistance penetration that would require you to only gain that bonus if firing after like 1~2second intervals so that DPS seer won't go insanly op then DPH be useful. Unless if DPH get just straight more raw damage+ bonus may be able to help with a slight -rof to even it out. Like -20% rof and +50% damage.

The "Shadow Ambush: 'Wait until their backs are turned.' +3% Critical Hit Percentage when unseen by target, +3% Damage when striking from behind" isn't to effective at least the crit hit % bonus due to seer only being able to be potentional good they have the be dps so that bonus wont work so well. And that most player have pretty good radar power that when the seer is somewhat close and moves around pretty quickly they will be detected( mainly Sniper and SD can somewhat easily see a Seer when it gets near or for sometime after the seer fires). The damage increase from behind is still pretty good. Also on Psionic Shrouding: 'Shroud yourself in a mental fog.' +5% Stealth, +5% Critical hit resistance i think seer can make do with a different bonus while reduce the crit hit resistance and adding a slight shield bonus since your not suppose to been seen that much anyways to need that much crit hit resistance.

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Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:55 am
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Post Re: Class Rebalance Proposal: Seer
Thank you, that is exactly what I was looking for. Let me be clear that we have not yet gotten to the rebalance phase where we make sure each class does the right amount of DPS. If after we decide on class roles we determine that Seer need more DPS, we will just give them more. It's as simple as that. However, we do need to make the decision on class roles before we mess around with DPS bonuses since doing it in the other order is extremely frustrating and unproductive.

An idea I was thinking about to help DPH Seer was a 5-10 second analysis type effect (constantly builds, unlike the new Sniper Analysis item) that resets if you change target or shoot your weapon but gives you crit chance and some damage/crit damage for your first shot. This would replace the ambush critical chance as a more sensible way to help DPH Seer (I am not a fan of how Seer can currently get perma crits with Ares Sapper simply by remaining unseen while firing at range).

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Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:26 am
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Post Re: Class Rebalance Proposal: Seer
yclepticon wrote:
An idea I was thinking about to help DPH Seer was a 5-10 second analysis type effect (constantly builds, unlike the new Sniper Analysis item) that resets if you change target or shoot your weapon but gives you crit chance and some damage/crit damage for your first shot. This would replace the ambush critical chance as a more sensible way to help DPH Seer (I am not a fan of how Seer can currently get perma crits with Ares Sapper simply by remaining unseen while firing at range).

Seem's alright if the SA was 4~6 seconds so i would assume shadow ambush skill would be reworked and more sensible(like adding a -vis return time from firing a weapon back down to the regular vis). Also The Seer Class gives +2% Damage, +1% Ethereal weapon damage and improved Warp abilities . Can this improved warp abilities thing that everyone has been laughing at for years finally be changed to like just 1%+speed or something minor?

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Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:02 am
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