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Post Re: Weekly Dev Meeting - September 23
For all the kids tuning in at home, Eminence Front now self-confirmed as:

1) mid-level team that is being griefed by Traders and Red Faction
2) unable to PM Blue Dwarf on IRC to talk about game issues
3) salty

This ticker brought to you live from Griefsploiters Network, Star Sonata's premier league of baddies.

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Hi, I'm Anil, a long-time player turned developer. I am Star Sonata's lead content developer, which means that I run weekly dev meetings and make sure that any proposed changes to the game receive proper review before going live.

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Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:15 am
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Meeting - September 23
anilv wrote:
The point is that this is business as usual. Devs are informed in random ways of various game issues, and if it's something they can fix they do it.


I would like to think they look at the forum though. A bit like now how I offered a suggestion/method to resolving almost all the issues with off team alts in my post in this topic and no one mentioned it. But again I don't expect developers to be gods and respond to everything. :wink:

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Last edited by Markoz on Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:22 am
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Meeting - September 23
anilv wrote:
Because there's no such thing as ticket system and IRC. :roll: The problem was reported by Traders after we were forced to create level 400 PvB Shrimps to kill some unteamed level 218 EF bases on valuable ruins. I do enjoy the irony of EF members complaining about "inappropriate leverage" though, so please keep it coming.


I don't see how support tickets has anything to do with suggestions on fixing imbalance in the game. You out of all people should have been here long enough to know that support tickets aren't used for such things.

And see, this is the fun part. This has been a known problem for a long time, but only after Traders complained in a closed communication chanel, yclepticon magically appears to present this as the "most pressing concern" with PvP ranges, and that he wants to fix that issue, without thinking about presenting it as a part of a bigger issue, because it certainly is.

If this is business as usual, then yclepticon should learn to present his proposed changes in a different way. Something along the lines of "We're looking to revamp PvP ranges as a whole, and as a part of this yclepticon suggests that we lift the PvP ranges in Wild Space W3".

The way it has been presented by him is nothing but horrible.


Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:23 am
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Meeting - September 23
So you are equating that you "had" to get level 400 alts to kill some low level bases (whole other discussion as to why these are used) to the NEED for a new client to handle a mechanic that was implemented without testing?


Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:25 am
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Meeting - September 23
I fail to see how that's my problem. We just did what everyone else has always done which is get in touch with the devs if there's a game-breaking mechanic that is messing our shit up. The fact that apparently the entire dev team agrees with us makes me feel quite justified in this. It's not like we asked some rogue solo dev to change something without consulting Jeff, Jey, and the rest of them.

For those continuing to tune in at home, EF is mainly salty because they've been humping some really nice ruins in Warp 3 Wild Space with an unteamed level 218 alt, whose bases we have killed a few times using some hilarious but ultimately tedious lowbie alt tactics of our own. Meanwhile Thermal is also salty because all the mythical actual lowbie players who are supposedly getting griefed in low-DF Wild Space are still not being protected by the dev team. Even though we're all still waiting for the epidemic of endgame players wiping lowbies that he's been predicting/decrying for the past few months.

For the record, as I've said before, I'm OK with PvP range revamps that will help shield legitimate new players from POTENTIAL endgame griefing, even though that is not actually taking place in the current climate. But I would take the opposite position from these clowns and say that it's better to fix the problem that is actually a problem first, rather than letting EF get away with this level 218 bullshit while the devs spend another two unis crafting some elaborate comprehensive PvP range revamp.

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Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:29 am
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Meeting - September 23
xcrunner5 wrote:
So you are equating that you "had" to get level 400 alts to kill some low level bases (whole other discussion as to why these are used) to the NEED for a new client to handle a mechanic that was implemented without testing?


Sorry for feeling the need to kill the bases of an enemy we've been at war with for months, when said enemy is extracting a war-critical ruin. Yes, we had to kill your bases. And yes, the process is exactly the same, but I'll spell it out for you if reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

1) Team A runs into faulty mechanic
2) Team A reports said mechanic to a dev
3) Devs fix said mechanic

You all are salty that we followed this procedure when it exactly describes Galactic Infraction as well. I'm not even mad that the failed BvB got Jey to work on a better client. That improves the game for everyone. The same is true about removing the ability to use low level alts to safely obtain valuable resources in Warp 3.

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Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:30 am
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Meeting - September 23
Markoz wrote:
One method to resolve off team characters/accounts is to track what computer is using the "said" accounts and link them together on the server side, then use a series of rules that applies across those different accounts for the next 24 hours or week even. For example: if Shadow Wolf is currently at war with RF + Traders, then this alt account hes using receives the same rules of war for so much time (making RF+Trader bases/slaves automatically attack said off team alt).


Markoz wrote:
I would like to think they look at the forum though. A bit like now how I offered a suggestion/method to resolving almost all the issues with off team alts in my post in this topic and no one mentioned it.


I support this. I agree that using off team/low level alts to scan bases and such shouldn't be possible.


Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:40 am
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Meeting - September 23
anilv wrote:
The same is true about removing the ability to use low level alts to safely obtain valuable resources in Warp 3.


Except it doesn't get at the reason for using a low level alt in the first place? I'd gladly drop a few t20 ada kits to defend a valuable resource like that, however, to actually defend it and have a good chance of not loosing anything (including the galaxy), I have to put down at minimum 1 fully developed account's worth of slots, and even then it would probably need more slots to make sure it wouldn't get killed.

Or I can use a level 200 alt I have, put down 2 kits, using 1/15 the slots.


Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:44 am
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Meeting - September 23
Thats naughty to avoid wars by using low alts always has been naughty. Glad its been stopped.


Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:08 am
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Meeting - September 23
yclepticon wrote:
Hello,

We received specific complaints from players about the PvP ranges in Warp 3 Wild Space being too restrictive, and after our meeting yesterday the dev team was unanimously in favor of removing all PvP ranges in that area of space.


All I can say is,,, f****** finally. I would like to point out that if I'm reading this right, this change goes far beyond fixing low level alt bases. It will actually help fix another pvp abuse that hurts low level players way more right now and that some high level players have exploited in the past and caused at least two previous catastrophic wild space losses in previous unis for our team, and I can only imagine how many for others.

Back when most of us were lower level, mostly in the 1000's, certain players who will rename unnamed (you know who you are) would do the opposite of the problem referenced here with bases. They would attack us with level 1000's but would have along multiple level 3000-5000+ ShMs that none of us or our bases were allowed to fight back against because of the pvp range rules. They basically had unlimited healing that no one could even target because of the pvp range. If we would have been able to target them, attack with our sniper or seers, tractor them around etc, at least we would've had a chance. But this ruleset created a situation where the game literally prevented us from fighting back.

I'm glad for this change. Too many asshat exploiters ruined low level teams by abusing this rule set limitation.


Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:32 am
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Meeting - September 23
Morat - Woo better slave nagivation, maybe allow for more custom galaxies to allow slavers? looks promising.

Yclepticon + Col Legno - t21/t22 Bases looks/sounds neat, looking forward to that. :)

Precursor - Maybe a topic about ruin suggestions? eh? :p

Ryan - You know your bringing SS to windows 95 tier with those expandable windows lol. yay :D game will be changed for life.

Fixes -
I do like the fix for healing shm, yay finally :D
That aura issue, can't wait to see that working properly in Free Market.
The Nexus fix i hope this is the issue where clients crash in the first gal u appear in when you first start.

What happened to the questions and answers?! :shock:

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Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:50 am
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Meeting - September 23
Game needs Red Light, Yellow Light, Green Light PvP rules.

Also, I'm sure yclepticon and enkelin share the same sense of urgency in regards to this W3 PvP Range issue. You're not gonna get anywhere arguing with him Thermal... especially when ya'll were using level 200 bases to extract ruins lmao.

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Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:59 am
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Meeting - September 23
Let me be a bit clear. I'm not against the change. I'm all for it.

What I am against, is that the way the developer team has responded to this. This issue isn't something new. It has happened for a few years, and it includes low level player ships, drones and even slaves, being used as a tactic to take advantage of PvP ranges to compete in areas of the game where they become nearly impossible to deal with by high level players.

So I support the change yclepticon suggests.

But I am very so much against that this has happened for several years, with a lot of player attention to it, but without developer response. Until this time, when Traders suddenly make the developers turn all their attention to this narrow issue, and which yclepticon describes as the "most pressing concern". The most pressing concern is that this is just a result of extremely poorly designed PvP ranges, and that should change. It is pretty easy to give examples, as I've done several times in the past.

So before this narrow issue is rolled out as a "most pressing concern", then I think the developers should listen to those who have tried to point out the underlying issue for years. PvP ranges are outdated, and the mechanic needs a revamp.

The changes are rather simple.

- Make PvP ranges in Warp 1 galaxies a lot narrower.
- Make PvP ranges in Warp 2 galaxies narrower.
- Lift PvP ranges completely in Warp 3 galaxies.
- Move Ancient ruins and tier 3 commodities to Warp 3.
- Remove the Emperor Claim effect on PvP ranges.
- Make mutual wars lift all PvP ranges under any circumstance.

This is what I've been trying to point out for a while, and therefore it is rather depressing to see that only now the developer team picks up on a fractional issue in this greater issue, and decides to start working on a fix for this, only because Traders somehow managed to get through to a developer who felt that now is the right time to fix this imbalance.

And for those who are still tuning in, it can also be noted that Traders has used level 200 off-team players to scan our bases and avoid PvP ranges for a while now. I guess we can keep pointing fingers left and right, but our last attempt at getting PvP ranges fixed because of that exact situation, left us without any reply from the developers. Which is why I'm confused to how this narrow fix is getting announced at this time, by a developer who obviously have figured that Traders' complaints were worth listening to, while ours were left unnoticed.


Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:38 am
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Meeting - September 23
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Last edited by Markoz on Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:42 am
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Meeting - September 23
andezrhode2a wrote:
And for those who are still tuning in, it can also be noted that Traders has used level 200 off-team players to scan our bases and avoid PvP ranges for a while now. I guess we can keep pointing fingers left and right, but our last attempt at getting PvP ranges fixed because of that exact situation, left us without any reply from the developers. Which is why I'm confused to how this narrow fix is getting announced at this time, by a developer who obviously have figured that Traders' complaints were worth listening to, while ours were left unnoticed.


Base scanning is a hostile action and respects PvP ranges. The only scanning I have done is on my level 2000 Seer, which incidentally has been on Traders since it was created. Nice try but EF doesn't get company in the lowbie exploiting club this time.

xcrunner5 wrote:
Except it doesn't get at the reason for using a low level alt in the first place? I'd gladly drop a few t20 ada kits to defend a valuable resource like that, however, to actually defend it and have a good chance of not loosing anything (including the galaxy), I have to put down at minimum 1 fully developed account's worth of slots, and even then it would probably need more slots to make sure it wouldn't get killed.

Or I can use a level 200 alt I have, put down 2 kits, using 1/15 the slots.


You have spelled out why you are in the wrong more clearly than I could ever have done. EF had the choice to pay a surrender price. If your team had paid this, you would be able to extract ruins and build colonies all over creation, as you have done in the past. Unfortunately, you or your leadership chose not to pay the price and you are now suffering excessive risk and defense costs. I am pleased to see that reps from RE and SRX agree with me that circumventing war with a level 218 alt in Warp 3 is wholly inappropriate, and I'm sure that the majority of endgame players are with me as well.

Live ticker update: EF too cheap to surrender but also too cheap for war.

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http://www.starsonata.com/features


Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:47 am
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