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Post Industrial Commodities System
Discussion topic for post: http://www.starsonata.com/blog/industri ... es-system/


Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:24 pm
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Post Re: Industrial Commodities System
Okay. My initial reaction is "what the fuck why" but after reading it seems like it will be good.

I'm curious as to the numbers for credit generation per day, per ai base. Currently Station Y's and all the other built items don't have a limit other than how many gals you're willing to take.

Can we get transparency? What's the current income vs the new system's income per day look like? How is it being balanced/calculated?

Will the ai base prices fluctuate wildly? As in, will we need to sell these commods daily when they fully run out ourselves, or will we be able to setup slaves to sell the commods automatically as they are produced?

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Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:46 pm
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Post Re: Industrial Commodities System
I'll ask yclept if he has any numbers he can share. I do know though that the base value per metals will be slightly above what Y's will currently get you plus you'll be able to get substantial value from nuke waste, silicon, and oats.
ELITE wrote:
Will the ai base prices fluctuate wildly? As in, will we need to sell these commods daily when they fully run out ourselves, or will we be able to setup slaves to sell the commods automatically as they are produced?

AI base prices will fluctuate based on how many commods they have in storage, and the storage and consumption amounts will be much higher than the current commods. If you're producing exceptionally high amounts of commods in your corner of space and saturating AI bases, you might want to consider shipping them further.

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Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:59 pm
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Post Re: Industrial Commodities System
ELITE wrote:
Okay. My initial reaction is "what the fuck why" but after reading it seems like it will be good.

I'm curious as to the numbers for credit generation per day, per ai base. Currently Station Y's and all the other built items don't have a limit other than how many gals you're willing to take.

Can we get transparency? What's the current income vs the new system's income per day look like? How is it being balanced/calculated?

Will the ai base prices fluctuate wildly? As in, will we need to sell these commods daily when they fully run out ourselves, or will we be able to setup slaves to sell the commods automatically as they are produced?


Good questions and thanks for the feedback. I am all for transparency and the only reason I haven't given specifics is that I am fully expecting to have to revise numbers once we get a proper test of the system. But here is what I know so far.

There are roughly 200 AI bases in Wild Space, which will be split into 7 types. The four basic themes (Metals, Nuclear Waste, Silicon, and Space Oats) will have 35 bases each. The remaining three themes (Baobabs, Peasants, Promethium) will have 20 bases each. These numbers are all approximate but you get the idea.

Each base will be set up to consume about what an endgame player would be providing. if you're what I would classify as a "super endgame" player with more than a couple accounts, you might not fall into that category. For example, we are currently balancing the Metals-themed bases to consume about 150* million Metals per day in Steel Girders. If you are accustomed to selling much more than that in Extension Y's per day, you will need to ship some of your Girders to a different AI base.

The way prices fluctuate is based on the standard formula. If the base has zero supply of the commod, it will pay 2x list price for the first sale. The price then declines gradually as supply builds up, hitting the normal list price at 50% supply. Once the base is almost full, it will be paying about 50% of list price. It won't buy anything once it is full, but since all AI bases will constantly consume these commods at a pretty good rate, it will keep making a bit more room and filling up as you sell.

Long-term, we would like things to be balanced so that roughly 50% of AI base sales happen inside team territories and the rest are done by shipping commods to AI bases outside team territories. To start, we have set up the numbers in a way that we hope will make the balance more like 70% in, 30% out. I based my reasoning off of counts of how many AI bases each team currently controls, versus how many are out there in unowned space. I also did some estimates of how many endgame builders each team has. I freely admit that I had to make some assumptions in order to come up with the current numbers, but that's only because we just don't have the logs to make a more precise determination before putting the system in. As I wrote in the original post, I will keep a close eye on balance and am ready to revise the AI base trade bay stats once we get players actually trying the system out.

Edit: checked the sheets and it's 150m, not 200m. Subject to change as we get a feel for the balance.

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Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:06 pm
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Post Re: Industrial Commodities System
yclepticon wrote:
ELITE wrote:
Okay. My initial reaction is "what the fuck why" but after reading it seems like it will be good.

I'm curious as to the numbers for credit generation per day, per ai base. Currently Station Y's and all the other built items don't have a limit other than how many gals you're willing to take.

Can we get transparency? What's the current income vs the new system's income per day look like? How is it being balanced/calculated?

Will the ai base prices fluctuate wildly? As in, will we need to sell these commods daily when they fully run out ourselves, or will we be able to setup slaves to sell the commods automatically as they are produced?


Good questions and thanks for the feedback. I am all for transparency and the only reason I haven't given specifics is that I am fully expecting to have to revise numbers once we get a proper test of the system. But here is what I know so far.

There are roughly 200 AI bases in Wild Space, which will be split into 7 types. The four basic themes (Metals, Nuclear Waste, Silicon, and Space Oats) will have 35 bases each. The remaining three themes (Baobabs, Peasants, Promethium) will have 20 bases each. These numbers are all approximate but you get the idea.

Each base will be set up to consume about what an endgame player would be providing. if you're what I would classify as a "super endgame" player with more than a couple accounts, you might not fall into that category. For example, we are currently balancing the Metals-themed bases to consume about 150* million Metals per day in Steel Girders. If you are accustomed to selling much more than that in Extension Y's per day, you will need to ship some of your Girders to a different AI base.

The way prices fluctuate is based on the standard formula. If the base has zero supply of the commod, it will pay 2x list price for the first sale. The price then declines gradually as supply builds up, hitting the normal list price at 50% supply. Once the base is almost full, it will be paying about 50% of list price. It won't buy anything once it is full, but since all AI bases will constantly consume these commods at a pretty good rate, it will keep making a bit more room and filling up as you sell.

Long-term, we would like things to be balanced so that roughly 50% of AI base sales happen inside team territories and the rest are done by shipping commods to AI bases outside team territories. To start, we have set up the numbers in a way that we hope will make the balance more like 70% in, 30% out. I based my reasoning off of counts of how many AI bases each team currently controls, versus how many are out there in unowned space. I also did some estimates of how many endgame builders each team has. I freely admit that I had to make some assumptions in order to come up with the current numbers, but that's only because we just don't have the logs to make a more precise determination before putting the system in. As I wrote in the original post, I will keep a close eye on balance and am ready to revise the AI base trade bay stats once we get players actually trying the system out.

Edit: checked the sheets and it's 150m, not 200m. Subject to change as we get a feel for the balance.



As long as the decay rates are relatively easy to see or are given to us, won't be too annoying to setup a slave that hits a base x times per day with x commods.

Adds a lot of micromanagement for most efficient profit, which pushes the Y spammers into colony micromanagement levels for more profit. I think I like that.

I'm not sure how I feel about 200 ai bases. Gonna have some interesting fights for 2-3 ai base gals. And lots of convoys selling commods to random other ai bases that no one claims.

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Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:23 pm
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Post Re: Industrial Commodities System
Pirates be loving popping them TS now


Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:28 pm
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Post Re: Industrial Commodities System
A big part of what I like about this system, is that it is very easy to get into compared to colonies (plop some extractors and a factory on a base, and you can start making these commods to sell) but it still scales up high to an interesting level of complexity for maximum efficiency.

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Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:29 pm
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Post Re: Industrial Commodities System
sabre198 wrote:
Pirates be loving popping them TS now


Well slaves don't drop any of the credits carried on death. Haven't for a long time.

But if that's fixed, I will be murdering everyone's trade slaves.

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Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:30 pm
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Post Re: Industrial Commodities System
SI wrote:
A big part of what I like about this system, is that it is very easy to get into compared to colonies (plop some extractors and a factory on a base, and you can start making these commods to sell) but it still scales up high to an interesting level of complexity for maximum efficiency.


It's probably still far more character intensive than doing colonies though. Instead of 1 low level EE and 1 high level CA you can have like 10 lvl 3k EEs and 10 high lvl MFMs to ship the commods to a proddy. Production has always been a lot harder to pull off than doing colonies and I dont think this will change that :)

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Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:31 pm
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Post Re: Industrial Commodities System
No not for the money just to Piss up your enterprise


Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:32 pm
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Post Re: Industrial Commodities System
How does consumption work? Is it a flat amount or does it scale with the base's curent stock?

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Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:05 pm
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Post Re: Industrial Commodities System
The Salty One wrote:
How does consumption work? Is it a flat amount or does it scale with the base's curent stock?


It's a flat amount, but a different amount for each commod.

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Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:09 pm
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Post Re: Industrial Commodities System
The Salty One wrote:
How does consumption work? Is it a flat amount or does it scale with the base's curent stock?


Currently it is a flat rate in-game I believe.

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Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:13 pm
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Post Re: Industrial Commodities System
Will the different space layers affect the AI base consumption of these new commodities? If so, how?


Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:23 pm
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Post Re: Industrial Commodities System
kwilson wrote:
Will the different space layers affect the AI base consumption of these new commodities? If so, how?


At this time, only the AI bases in Wild Space will deal in the new commodities. However, AI bases in lower DF will consume a bit faster than AI bases in warp 3, to reward players a bit for shipping out of team space.

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Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:59 pm
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