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Post Re: Weekly Dev Blog - August 10th
I don't think you should make it a 'daily' thing to weaken a T20 boss.

A mission chain could work, but nobody wants to be forced to wait a week to get the boss down to an optimal level to fight before they can actually get their skill. It's the whole reason instanced bosses were added in the first place, because Weapons 20 / Equipment 20 were so contested due to their being only 1 boss in the whole game that dropped the commodity (Personally I was in favour of that system as it made end-game a whole lot more competitive and interesting).

Yes, before you jump to it, I know you don't *have* to do the dailies but if you're not going to make it a viable option then why add it at all? As stated already this game has no mid-game level playerbase to help group and take on content and if something is too difficult or too costly for time then yeah they're just going to ask someone who is T22 to kill it for them which again completely negates the entire reasoning behind this change.

If it's a series of missions the player can do with no time-restrictions on when they can do them, then yeah, people will definitely consider it. Please make sure it's fleshed out before you implement it though...
I love the Herophilius 3000 mission and all, but having to take your note to the base, complete that quest, accept another quest to talk to someone, complete that quest and then accept a quest to get a key to go into the zone and then accept another quest to actually save the dude is just a bit much.
Never understood why you need a separate mission for the key or a mission to just talk to the person before agreeing to save them.


Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:27 pm
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Blog - August 10th
You have a good point, I'll bring this up.

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Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:39 pm
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Blog - August 10th
I wanted to clarify the tech 20 boss dailies a bit for all of you, as there is some concern.
The dailies will be an alternative to group runs, they will allow a tech 20 player to easily kill the boss (or at least, weaken it to the point of completing the skill mission, say if it's scripted to run away at 50% health), the dailies will be there as several missions the player can do to weaken the boss.

This can be as simple as 'hey, go fetch X in star system Y, so you get benefit Z in the boss fight', or 'the guards are hanging out nearby, if you go kill them now they can't defend the boss when you go into the fight'.

The dailies will be one time only, and will forfeit the boss's loot, you can do half the dailies if you want, or you can take extra time (say 2 days instead of 1) to do them all, and really weaken the boss if you don't think you can do it yet. If you fail, go back, do a few more dailies to weaken it more, and try again (or get some other players to help you out if you're still not sure you can do it).

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Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:51 pm
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Blog - August 10th
I think it's a great idea in theory, but again people aren't going to want to wait that additional day if they can already do it now.

Weapons 20 is a huge leap from Weapons 19, but Weapons 21 and 22 is even greater again. It just doesn't make sense for someone to wait that extra day when they can just ask someone to MC a couple of T22 ships and complete it for them.

Our new endgame is so far past Weapons 20 that it's no sweat to go back and do that run for someone. Hell, I've seen CLX solo it in his zerker with no ShM or any additional DPS and sure that's pre-buff to the boss but it was still a possibility and I can't imagine you're going to buff it that much that he couldn't just bring a ShM and still complete it (Which is fine since he's T22).

I just really don't like the idea of being locked out of content for an arbitrary reason.
Realistically this will only serve to hinder how quickly someone endgame can kill the boss, which is already a massive debate in the other forums about how AI are just getting shit loads of shields to balance around MF Prawn Snipers.

I really love your idea to kill the guards so that they're not in the fight or go collect the Space Flux inhibitor to prevent her from running, or something like that. But those things will go unused if it's not something I can complete consecutively with no delay.

Current meta is to either level your alt in copper with some heal-train until they can get MF Biggers and stomp over content to hoard skillpoints and train into an alien ship, or you just start as an FC and either AFK in a DG somewhere or again just stomp over content accumulating skill points until you can go from weapons 5 -> 20 and then you just do a run with your team on Oly and subspace and boom, 21 and 22.

Unfortunately this isn't going to change that, this will just make it take 20 minutes to kill the bana queen instead of 10 and all your work will be glossed over in the pursuit of T22, unless the changes make it viable to seek alternatives, which if it's going to take me either 24 hours to wait and weaken the boss so a small group of similar skilled players can kill it, or 20 minutes for someone in a T22 ship to come kill it... Well, you know which option I am going to take.


Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:51 am
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Blog - August 10th
The purpose of this change isn't to make it easier for people who are making alts to power level, the purpose is to make it so that new players aren't forced to play the way the older players do it in order to make any progress at all. There are people who do not have high level friends, nor money to pay someone to do a run for them. Some of these people may be online at weird hours of the day, so they can't get any progress due to almost no one being online. The changes are supposed to smooth out progression for that demographic. We actually want people to group up to do stuff, letting them get the skills through a 1-2 day chain just ensures that they never get stuck and unable to progress.

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Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:38 am
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Blog - August 10th
@Fleet General

Jeff wanted to massively slow down player progression with the introduction of high SP cost skills. Casual players can take a couple weeks and go from Nexus to T22 with some help from teammates. Hardcore players could do this in a single week, or less. That feels a bit wrong, and probably a reason why a lot of people own multiple high level accounts.

The change that Jeff tried failed miserably because there was not nearly enough content to distract the player and the current content was still steel bar hard to the casual player/team. I'm sure Jeff will try to reintroduce the slow down if content was more accessible, more numerous, and better rewarding to casual players.

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Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:08 am
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Blog - August 10th
I am not saying you should make it easier for alts to power level and get to W20, but what I am saying is that this change won't make much of a difference other than to hinder them by a few minutes and new players by 24 hours.

As I said, it's more likely that they will find someone to clear Bana for them before they are able to do the second daily mission as it's faster and just more viable given how much of the playerbase is T22 and how easy it is for T22 to clear it. If you had an incentive for non-T22 players to do it themselves then you'll see that happen, but that won't be accomplished by forcing them to wait a certain amount of time.
I could jump on the discord right now and I am sure I'd find someone willing to help me do Bana for free.

I love the idea though, I just think you need to revise the execution of it.


Oly dailies only work because it's so much effort to do an Oly run and even then you don't get a full skill for killing each god, only for killing all of them can you potentially get 1 skill.
When I was playing I didn't know of anyone who did Subspace dailies to get skills either, I think Oly is just an anomaly given the ridiculous cost to train T21.


Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:36 pm
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Blog - August 10th
I think you're misunderstanding what we mean when we say "harder".

We're not going to raise the shields of Bana or the damage of Bana so that it wipes people who don't have a certain amount of damage/healing/resistances, that would be a long and boring fight. We're going to make Bana something you don't warp into and solo in 1minute because you're uber. The intention is to make Bana easier for groups of people and a little harder for people soloing. That means if you bring 3-5 people in sub T20 ships they'll be able to complete it as long as they work together. But if one person that's T22 warps in they will have a harder time than it is right now.

The 2 day mission spread is so that if you don't find someone or a group to help you get the skills, or if you want to play by yourself, you can do so at your own pace. The boss will be weakened by your actions.

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Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:10 pm
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Blog - August 10th
MasterTrader wrote:
I think you're misunderstanding what we mean when we say "harder".

We're not going to raise the shields of Bana or the damage of Bana so that it wipes people who don't have a certain amount of damage/healing/resistances, that would be a long and boring fight. We're going to make Bana something you don't warp into and solo in 1minute because you're uber. The intention is to make Bana easier for groups of people and a little harder for people soloing. That means if you bring 3-5 people in sub T20 ships they'll be able to complete it as long as they work together. But if one person that's T22 warps in they will have a harder time than it is right now.

The 2 day mission spread is so that if you don't find someone or a group to help you get the skills, or if you want to play by yourself, you can do so at your own pace. The boss will be weakened by your actions.


So encouraging group play in a game that goes droughts with several people offline? Pretty smart... :roll:

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Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:29 pm
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Blog - August 10th
Im all for encouraging group play but not at the expense of making the solo route harder since for the most part its the only route. I thought the point of this was to make the solo route easier on people so they dont have to rely on the uber people?

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Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:31 pm
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Blog - August 10th
Can you elaborate on that though?
I am just curious how you guys will do that without making it too difficult for pre-T22 characters and without them having to do the dailies to first weaken it.

Like I said, love the idea but I am just apprehensive that it'll actually work in the way you guys intend it to. So much cool content goes unnoticed and I'd hate for this to make the next addition to that list because it's not viable to do; sadly the reality is that the game doesn't have enough players pre-T22 to band together and do that sort of content, and balancing + implementing something around the hope of that demographic growing just won't work unless there is incentive in it.

I mean, imagine if it were implemented today, the single person who hasn't got weapons 20 yet won't bother doing those missions, they'll just ask someone to clear it for them.
However, if it were a mission chain they could keep doing for the next hour or so, then they'd actually do it themselves.


Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:37 pm
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Blog - August 10th
redalert150 wrote:
Im all for encouraging group play but not at the expense of making the solo route harder since for the most part its the only route. I thought the point of this was to make the solo route easier on people so they dont have to rely on the uber people?


Well, from what I gather the idea is that if you do the daily missions for 2 days consecutively then you'll weaken the boss to the point you can solo it in T19 gear.

My concern is that this is kinda' useless given that you're going to be able to find someone to clear Bana for you before those 48 hours.


Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:39 pm
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Blog - August 10th
Well the point is that if you want to solo you can solo, without the help of someone end game. I dont see the point in buffing a old zone though, like you really think youre going to stop a end game player from wrecking tech 20 zones? Youre just going to make an old zone every more annoying to do for no reason other then to be annoying. Just add the dailies and leave the bosses as they currently are.

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Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:48 pm
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Blog - August 10th
I realize now that in our zeal to keep everything quiet, me and SunDog didn't clearly explain what we're doing.

We are totally reworking Iq' Bana.

Our goal is to revamp all of the Tech 20 bosses and their lore/zones/fights, in order to make them feel more like boss fights. This does mean that fighting that boss the traditional way (fly in, target boss, hold down spacebar, dodge stuff everyone once in awhile) will be heavily disincentivized. This does mean that you probably will not be able to solo these bosses as easily as you can right now.

But we're not just buffing the boss, adding dailies and leaving it at that. We're literally revamping all of Iq' Bana. There will be minibosses, things to explore and reasons to go there to do content and receive rewards. You won't warp into Iq' Bana just to do the boss or to get skills anymore. I promise we're not trying to take things away from you without anything else being added.

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Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:49 pm
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Post Re: Weekly Dev Blog - August 10th
So to be clear, what Hober is trying to say is that while you will probably not be grinding Bana Queen anymore, there will be new content of comparable difficult and reward to the current Bana Queen that you will be able to grind instead if you so choose. But the actual boss will be far stronger, as is appropriate from the lore.

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Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:58 pm
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