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| Upcoming Revisions to Industrial Commodities http://forum.starsonata.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=62233 |
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| Author: | Star Sonata Bot [ Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Upcoming Revisions to Industrial Commodities |
Discussion topic for post: http://www.starsonata.com/announcements ... mmodities/ |
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| Author: | iwnh01 [ Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Upcoming Revisions to Industrial Commodities |
I was wondering if you've considered a feedback mechanism for IC consumption rates based on credits made from ICs? |
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| Author: | anilv [ Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Upcoming Revisions to Industrial Commodities |
iwnh01 wrote: I was wondering if you've considered a feedback mechanism for IC consumption rates based on credits made from ICs? So like, the prices would decline the more money it sourced? |
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| Author: | redalert150 [ Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Upcoming Revisions to Industrial Commodities |
This sounds cool only time will tell i guess though. My only issue is, do you guys really need 2-4 months of data before you nerf something that is clearly so broken? The influx of creds that have come in game because of IC is pretty ridiculous, you guys could of changed them months ago but instead here we are. Is there any way to tell how more creds are in game this uni then last uni? Id love to hear that number, im pretty sure its stupid high even with the decline of the playerbase this uni. |
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| Author: | anilv [ Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Upcoming Revisions to Industrial Commodities |
redalert150 wrote: This sounds cool only time will tell i guess though. My only issue is, do you guys really need 2-4 months of data before you nerf something that is clearly so broken? The influx of creds that have come in game because of IC is pretty ridiculous, you guys could of changed them months ago but instead here we are. Is there any way to tell how more creds are in game this uni then last uni? Id love to hear that number, im pretty sure its stupid high even with the decline of the playerbase this uni. We have the data when we want it, but we aren't able to change AI base pricing and settings mid-uni. We can change stuff like factory stats (e.g. how many Nuke Waste go into a Fusion Cell) though. |
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| Author: | iwnh01 [ Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Upcoming Revisions to Industrial Commodities |
anilv wrote: iwnh01 wrote: I was wondering if you've considered a feedback mechanism for IC consumption rates based on credits made from ICs? So like, the prices would decline the more money it sourced? I was thinking the AI bases would consume more or less commods based on the amount of money going into the game from them. Like red mentioned, you would need some historical data. The idea would allow you to set a rolling target amount of IC income per unit of time. If the income is above the target then consumption would decrease, if the income was below the target consumption would increase. |
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| Author: | anilv [ Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Upcoming Revisions to Industrial Commodities |
That would be interesting. We don't currently have the ability to control pricing with that level of granularity. As I was saying to Red, we don't even have the ability to edit AI base trade bays mid-uni, barring changing them all manually. Now that I have been able to observe the system for a few months, I am pretty confident that the upcoming changes will have the desired effect on credit sourcing. We have solid numbers on the total amount of credits being sourced at the moment, so we can project pretty well how that will be affected by the price cuts in this change. |
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| Author: | anilv [ Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Upcoming Revisions to Industrial Commodities |
As requested by players, here's a link to a spreadsheet with all the new data on industrial commodities. |
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| Author: | lordjeroen [ Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Upcoming Revisions to Industrial Commodities |
Now you change it... I have warned you about the problems half a year ago how unbalanced it was. Last patch a secret change was added to the fusion cells (now taking 300 nukes, from 100 for more profit). Mind to actually think before adding things in? If it seems so hard to think then listen to someone that seems to have more braincells then you. Instead of basically telling him a lie by giving 1 example of steel girders and not saying anything about all the other commods. |
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| Author: | KonanCruss2 [ Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Upcoming Revisions to Industrial Commodities |
Naice, 50M For Adamantium, I'm buying all your Adamantium enkelin, for 51M each. Naice, 1M For Bronze, I'm buying all your Bronze for 2M each. Sounds legit. How the fuck are these AI saturation volume values calculated? Just some random numbers? Those values make no sense at all, if you use Girders as a model. If you take others as a model, it makes even less sense. I was expecting some kind of graph or table that would calculate all the profit on a daily basis, and plot it on a chart. But I've had too high expectations I guess. No wonder ICs are broken as fuck with these kind of spreadsheets. |
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| Author: | anilv [ Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Upcoming Revisions to Industrial Commodities |
KonanCruss2 wrote: How the fuck are these AI saturation volume values calculated? Just some random numbers? Those values make no sense at all, if you use Girders as a model. If you take others as a model, it makes even less sense. Saturation is set so the base will stock one week's worth of median consumption. Put another way, if you fill a base up and then let it be, it will take about one week to empty (with the non-constant consumption curve it varies a bit now). KonanCruss2 wrote: I was expecting some kind of graph or table that would calculate all the profit on a daily basis, and plot it on a chart. But I've had too high expectations I guess. No wonder ICs are broken as fuck with these kind of spreadsheets. Obviously we have done that sort of analysis. I didn't share it with the players because that is not the purpose of this press release. The purpose of the press release is to inform the players of the change, and provide the specifics of the change for anyone who is interested. If you want to model IC profits, you are free to do so on your own spreadsheets since all the data is public. |
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| Author: | anilv [ Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Upcoming Revisions to Industrial Commodities |
lordjeroen wrote: Last patch a secret change was added to the fusion cells (now taking 300 nukes, from 100 for more profit). That was actually an honest mistake. It was supposed to be part of these changes but the dev didn't realize that it would go live immediately instead of waiting until reset. With the new numbers for Fusion Cells, the 100-300 change will now be balanced as intended. |
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| Author: | anilv [ Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Upcoming Revisions to Industrial Commodities |
KonanCruss2 wrote: Naice, 50M For Adamantium, I'm buying all your Adamantium enkelin, for 51M each. Naice, 1M For Bronze, I'm buying all your Bronze for 2M each. Sounds legit. You might be misunderstanding the spreadsheet. Those are internal values used in the computation of the final IC's value. You aren't able to just sell those commodities directly to the AI base at those prices. Even the final value for the IC is just the median price, since it can vary down to 50% and up to 200% depending on AI base inventory. However, since the update a few months ago the AI base consumption rate also varies with inventory as well. |
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| Author: | sabre198 [ Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Upcoming Revisions to Industrial Commodities |
so at 50% do you actually lose money? in the past thats why selling to AI base was a waste of time, you set the slave to sell, the price falls so far that you lose money on every trade in hardly any quantity at all. Because the slave cant control its quantity to sell basically. how are people regulating this with IC's? |
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| Author: | anilv [ Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Upcoming Revisions to Industrial Commodities |
sabre198 wrote: so at 50% do you actually lose money? in the past thats why selling to AI base was a waste of time, you set the slave to sell, the price falls so far that you lose money on every trade in hardly any quantity at all. Because the slave cant control its quantity to sell basically. how are people regulating this with IC's? No, since the ICs are credit-free to manufacture. At 50% price you are just getting 7.5 per Metals instead of 15. However, because of the non-constant consumption curve, the AI base will actually consume 2.4x the median rate when it's full. This means that if you are keeping an AI base full, you will actually gross 20% more than you would at the median price (when the AI base is at half). That figure is obtained by working 2.4 * 0.5 = 1.2 (consumption x price). In other words, there is no drawback to selling greater volume to an AI base. You won't get as much money per item, but your gross earnings will only increase. Of course, I wouldn't recommend setting a trade bot route between two AI bases since of course the prices will flipflop after a while. But if you are routing them from your industry to AI bases, you have nothing to worry about. |
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