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Team: Resident Evil
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
What do you expect of the player base? To build in galaxies with smidgen-bunch of T0 commods on the planets? You've improved 40 galaxies but the other 360ish (minus the DF250+ ones) are still just shit galaxies not worth building in at all. Even if I count all the extractors for the T0's in a galaxy with 100+ base slots, they are still worse then a 7 planet galaxy with Loads/plenty of T0's. And those galaxies were common as fuck in DF200+ previous uni. So where did you get that the ressources are the same as previous uni's, I bet Traders must have some nice galaxies, and don't want others to also have some nice galaxies.

Talked with Danger, he has several moons and planets without ressources T0 or T1-3. The "same amount of ressources" is just an illusion that you create and want everyone to believe.

Looking back at the post of Enkelin that described the amount of galaxies per DF, Idk why you guys haven't seen that only having 20 DF250+ galaxies was a good idea when there were 100+ DF250+ galaxies owned previous uni(s). And don't say that the quote is inaccurate, otherwise you can ban enkelin for using inside information for his own benefit. Best devs ever, better start volunteering just so you can actually have the same amount of information as the team that owns all the DF250+ galaxies except 1, GOOD JOB DEVS. ROCKET SCIENCE FTW.


Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:13 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
so it could be due to less high end DF gals? and if traders owns the only high end gals this uni then of course everyone else is going to have a perception of a poor uni. Tradevs whipped up a quick communique to the overlords to throw cake to the masses to prevent a riot it seems.

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:23 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
If you don't like Traders having the middle, take it from them. By now you guys should have double their account levels. Just bash them from all directions.

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:52 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
I could see how moving from a situation where players did not have to fight Traders to a situation where players had to fight traders would be annoying to a lot of players.

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:08 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
It's more the issue, that the players that actually have the assets to kill Traders cba to do anything. It's useless to attack Traders, it won't fix this damn stupid universe. And the only team in this game that bothers attacking people is actually RE, the others are just living in the illusion and the ones who aren't just cba to do anything, since it will never get fixed anyway.

Kalthi Stronghold still hasn't been fixed also, and they said it was just a "misscomunication". The fixes that get provided are overly hyped and overly complex, and in the end, it amounts to nothing.

Personally, I'm already not subbing my accounts anymore, I promised someone to play for 1 month, and see what happens. But like, it goes from worse, to hella worse. The new changes are mostly stupid as fuck, and it keeps being put in a nice way by enkelin, but when you see it ingame, it is terrible, beyond game breaking content. Then it gets blaimed on the fact that it didn't get tested enough. Twisted Zone has a bug that just proves it didn't get tested AT ALL, just like Industrial Commods. It's like a bunch of THRMs, but everyone is living in the illusion that mostly enkelin himself creates.

Then if you look at the suggestions of some people, they clearly don't know the end game, and they suggest to change stuff, that are perfectly fine and balanced, while not looking at the imbalances. And heck, why bother with end game, they should work in early to mid game. Buffing Tortuga gear won't help the early to mid game at all.


Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:19 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
KonanCruss2 wrote:
It's more the issue, that the players that actually have the assets to kill Traders cba to do anything.

Cba is ALWAYS the most limiting factor in this game. :D

Anyway, best gals are not required for overpowered income. Any decent gals will do fine.


Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:49 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
my view is this,

You have made this game into a King of the Hill rush/war at the start of each uni. The team that is on at the reset and builds first in the center wins.

The player base now knows that there are only 5 or 6 high df gals that are worth building in. These gal will allow the team in the center to make trillions of credits over the uni. What about the other teams that lose the fight to the center or can't be online at the uni reset because of work/family commitments? They are left with poor gals that don't justify the build cost.

Please do not say BVB is the solution. With only 1 team making money, having the resources to supply all the hps/dps for building yz gear, and the massive advantage the defender gets in a BVB. I very much doubt that we will see any BVB against the center team for years to come.

With the new King of the Hill system we have, how are any new teams or players that do arrive from steam ever going to find a reasonable wild space gal to build in. Wasn't the whole idea of putting gear into kits to make it easier and more approachable to builders.

Guess you know all this already, and have decided to take the game down this path but personally I think it is a great shame to go back to a one team game.

Tonal


Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:59 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
tonal wrote:
my view is this,

You have made this game into a King of the Hill rush/war at the start of each uni. The team that is on at the reset and builds first in the center wins.

The player base now knows that there are only 5 or 6 high df gals that are worth building in. These gal will allow the team in the center to make trillions of credits over the uni. What about the other teams that lose the fight to the center or can't be online at the uni reset because of work/family commitments? They are left with poor gals that don't justify the build cost.

Please do not say BVB is the solution. With only 1 team making money, having the resources to supply all the hps/dps for building yz gear, and the massive advantage the defender gets in a BVB. I very much doubt that we will see any BVB against the center team for years to come.

With the new King of the Hill system we have, how are any new teams or players that do arrive from steam ever going to find a reasonable wild space gal to build in. Wasn't the whole idea of putting gear into kits to make it easier and more approachable to builders.

Guess you know all this already, and have decided to take the game down this path but personally I think it is a great shame to go back to a one team game.

Tonal


Tonal, this is a great deal of catastrophizing and not a lot of hard facts. Here are some of the latter for you.

1) it doesn't cost a lot of resources to fortify a galaxy. If you do UZ lockouts once a week for a uni, and spend about that much time again DGing, you should have everything you need for 7+ ada kits. This isn't an exaggeration, talk to your councillor Danger about it as he agrees with me wholeheartedly.

2) There are vastly more than 5-6 gals worth building in this uni. You can easily 100b+ profit from over 50 galaxies. I would remind you that even 2-3 years ago Traders was dropping 4-6 ada kits in galaxies that would only net 200b in colony profit for the universe. The only reason you are saying that so few gals are worth building in is that you are ascribing a highly inflated number to the cost of building. See #1.

3) Once you consider these two points, your conclusion about King of the Hill fails. Credit generation is not directly coupled to team strength because of #1. Credit generation is also not restricted to one team (#2).

4) Yes, one of the main purposes of the recent base revamp was to make building more accessible to new players. It was a huge success in that respect. New players don't need ace-status incredible gals. Even with the shrinking of Wild Space, there are tons of galaxies that new players should be delighted to build in. They don't even need to drop high-cost kits.

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:18 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
theres an obvious problem still here, that much is for sure. The question is if its an actual problem with the numbers or just how it feels. We cannot fix feeling (at least not without changing mechanics behind it), but if theres an actual drop in resources average per region of wild space compared to previous uni's then we can figure a way to address it accordingly.

Throwing numbers around without context wont help and right now there is no way to properly compare the data. So first thing first is to figure a way to objectively measure said data. It's rather simple for me to pull out older uni saves for comparison but we need some method that would spit numbers usefull for a comparison and discussions.

Now at least according to some, my methods are "overly hyped and overly complex, and in the end, it amounts to nothing". Lets hear it, what metrics should be used to compare them ? If its feasible ill gladly implement it in the server code and run it on previous uni's to compare with the current one.

Only thing i can think off would be average resources per tier in a 2 jmps area of each galaxies (so for each buildable galaxies, add up all the resources in the place by tiers for all galaxies within 2 jumps) then maybe group them up by df range, or distance from the nearest earthforce sanct (so how deep it is)

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:20 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
Do you think the player base is going to be happy doing uz and dging plus the set up time and bot orders to make a 100bil ,when the center 5 or 6 gal makes trillions on ind commons like last uni ?

How is that not King of the Hill ?

Tonal


Last edited by tonal on Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:32 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
tonal wrote:
Do you think the player base is going to be happy doing uz and dging plus the set up time and bot orders to make a 100bil ,when the center 5 or 6 gal makes trillions on ind commons like last uni ?

How is that not King of the Hill ?

Tonal


I don't know what the player base is or isn't going to be happy doing, but if you can't be bothered to play the game for a couple hours a week to make 100b, then don't. All I know is that is how everyone used to do things back in the day and it seems like some people have been getting a wee bit spoiled.

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:39 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
doesn't really answer the question, how do you justify 50 gals making 100bil and the center 5 or 6 high df making trillions ?

And how is that not King of the Hill, one team wins gaming ? Not ever player / team can even be on at the uni start.


Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:51 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
where dd you get those figures from please elaborate that sounds fanciful even to a tin foil hatter

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:57 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
I'm not going to play that numbers game with you unless you can back it up with hard data. If you want to get back to me with scan data on DF 200 and up, then we can talk. Otherwise it's pure speculation. FYI I'll probably do the same myself as part of my dev duties, but just because it's the right thing to do.

Anyway, for anyone who cares I will say that I didn't realize that eliminating empty gals would have this consequence because I wasn't aware that the server would spread resources thinner to compensate. So that change was unintended on my part. Next uni, I would like to increase the DF 300 area to a plateau of about 5 gals and keep the rest of the dropoff the same. I think this would make enough room at the top for two teams to split it -- not comfortably, though.

Anyone who's complaining about the quality of the gal(s) they built in should answer the following question: if your gal is really so bad that it's not worth the cost of the defenses you put in, WHY DID YOU BUILD THERE? I don't personally agree with anyone who thinks that 5 Ada kits is a crazy expensive investment, and I would love to see someone try to argue that one down given how easy it is to do UZ, but if your own personal cost/benefit analysis was unfavorable to the galaxy, you have only yourself to blame for building there anyway. Did you even consider a cheaper defense configuration? I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of gals this uni could be fortified with 12 Bana kits and would never even come close to dying.

There was overwhelming support for the plan to shrink Wild Space. What did you all expect? That we would shrink it but just enough so that people's borders touch? We have complied with the mandate from the players. Reduce the size of Wild Space to the point that there is a reason to contest territory. For all the complaining about galaxy quality, there was very little contesting of territory this reset. RE contested one gal from Traders, maybe one more from S&P. I just think a lot of people didn't show up to play.

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:02 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
What you fail to understand, Tonal, is that even IF your claim about the center galaxies having trillions worth of resources would be correct, they would need to sell them off to the same AI bases that everyone else has access to in order to actually get the credits, which is an impossible feat itself. Dunno if you've looked at all the AI bases around wild space but I'd say over 90% are stocked up past the point of being able to make trillions already, and we're just a week into the new uni. It is bound to get worse.

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Last edited by DarkSteel on Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:11 am
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