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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
Masterful wrote:
If it's only possible to have a decent ROI for like 5 galaxies what the fuck do you want us to actually do?


It is perfectly possible to have a decent ROI. You just need to change the investment side of the equation. If you dropped 12 Bana kits in all your gals except a few key borders, I'm willing to bet that 0 of them would die by the end of the uni, barring a catastrophic war with Traders (which by the way your leadership is quite capable of avoiding with a little thing called diplomacy). What I am seeing is a bunch of players (not just RE) who have made poor decisions in the amount to invest in defense of some middling quality galaxies. And then those players are complaining that the ROI of those galaxies isn't high enough.

It is not the fault of any game mechanic if players make poor decisions about it.

Regarding your point about BvB, we resolved that issue by making it so for any given investment level, you have a fixed number of BvB slots. That completely changes the game such that at any given investment level, the dominant strategy is to use the best possible kits. And I have already roundly refuted the claim that the recent X gear change had any great impact on endgame BvB. But I'm not going to restate that argument because it's in the public domain for you to peruse if you so desire.

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:09 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
anilv wrote:
It is perfectly possible to have a decent ROI. You just need to change the investment side of the equation. If you dropped 12 Bana kits in all your gals except a few key borders, I'm willing to bet that 0 of them would die by the end of the uni, barring a catastrophic war with Traders (which by the way your leadership is quite capable of avoiding with a little thing called diplomacy). What I am seeing is a bunch of players (not just RE) who have made poor decisions in the amount to invest in defense of some middling quality galaxies. And then those players are complaining that the ROI of those galaxies isn't high enough.

It is not the fault of any game mechanic if players make poor decisions about it.
Decent ROI? Have you actually seen the galaxies below DF200~? They're almost completely worthless. We invested in those galaxies because we needed to build, and we were told, as this thread is evidence of, that the value of those galaxies would increase. That didn't happen. I don't know what fantasy world you're living in, and I'm not the only one in this thread that has come to that conclusion.

anilv wrote:
Regarding your point about BvB, we resolved that issue by making it so for any given investment level, you have a fixed number of BvB slots. That completely changes the game such that at any given investment level, the dominant strategy is to use the best possible kits. And I have already roundly refuted the claim that the recent X gear change had any great impact on endgame BvB. But I'm not going to restate that argument because it's in the public domain for you to peruse if you so desire.
I'm talking about a completely different issue here that was in the game last universe. You also have absolutely not way of knowing that the X gear change has had any impact on endgame BvB because... there hasn't been any.

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:18 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
Masterful wrote:
You also have absolutely not way of knowing that the X gear change has had any impact on endgame BvB because... there hasn't been any.


Actually I do have means of projecting this, because I can look at the change in relevant stats and observe that the result is negligible.

Masterful wrote:
Decent ROI? Have you actually seen the galaxies below DF200~? They're almost completely worthless. We invested in those galaxies because we needed to build, and we were told, as this thread is evidence of, that the value of those galaxies would increase. That didn't happen. I don't know what fantasy world you're living in, and I'm not the only one in this thread that has come to that conclusion.


If it costs you on the order of 10-15b to defend the gal, I guarantee the ROI is decent no matter how sparse the resources are.

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:24 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
anilv wrote:
Actually I do have means of projecting this, because I can look at the change in relevant stats and observe that the result is negligible.

If the difference between Anni X gear and Adamantiumized Gear in BvB is negligible, then it makes no difference which one you use. Which means you should use the X gear... since you don't actually have to pay for it.

anilv wrote:
If it costs you on the order of 10-15b to defend the gal, I guarantee the ROI is decent no matter how sparse the resources are.

Sparse resources means you need to have more kits to have the same amount of resource income. We did the math. We need, depending on the galaxy, 7-15x more kits to achieve the same level of resource income. We don't have that many base slots. Newer players who are just starting out building won't have those slots either. I don't know what new players are going to do.

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:29 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
New players will do whatever they want. They are probably not going to build to a great defensive standard the first time out of the gate. Which is fine now, because the cost of losing bases is quite low. They are free to experiment and learn from failure now, instead of ragequitting because of all the lost time and resources.

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:35 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
anilv wrote:
New players will do whatever they want. They are probably not going to build to a great defensive standard the first time out of the gate. Which is fine now, because the cost of losing bases is quite low. They are free to experiment and learn from failure now, instead of ragequitting because of all the lost time and resources.

Isn't this sort of counter-productive then? I was of the opinion that the "Empty x Slot" was added so that new players could get a better idea of how to run a base, and that this idea was meant to go with that general vibe. You actually said it earlier:

Quote:
Yes, one of the main purposes of the recent base revamp was to make building more accessible to new players. It was a huge success in that respect. New players don't need ace-status incredible gals. Even with the shrinking of Wild Space, there are tons of galaxies that new players should be delighted to build in. They don't even need to drop high-cost kits.
If it takes them 3 days to get the resources to build even the simplest things, is that not going to make them quit? Reducing the resources and making it harder to actually build things is not making it new-player accessible, if anything it's doing the exact opposite. There are not a ton of galaxies worth building in, even for newer players.

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:43 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
Masterful wrote:
anilv wrote:
New players will do whatever they want. They are probably not going to build to a great defensive standard the first time out of the gate. Which is fine now, because the cost of losing bases is quite low. They are free to experiment and learn from failure now, instead of ragequitting because of all the lost time and resources.

Isn't this sort of counter-productive then? I was of the opinion that the "Empty x Slot" was added so that new players could get a better idea of how to run a base, and that this idea was meant to go with that general vibe. You actually said it earlier:

No, we are just being realistic about what a new player will likely do when first trying to build bases. Even if they are advised by the UI about what is missing, they may still not think those items are required. The upshot is that we can't reliably *teach* new players how to build well from the start, so at least we are making it so that the consequences of failing aren't so severe. One of the greatest issues with bases in the past was that no one was ever able to get enough trial-and-error experience since base combat was rare and losses catastrophic. We have fixed the second one and are trying to fix the first one by making territory contesting more common.

Quote:
Yes, one of the main purposes of the recent base revamp was to make building more accessible to new players. It was a huge success in that respect. New players don't need ace-status incredible gals. Even with the shrinking of Wild Space, there are tons of galaxies that new players should be delighted to build in. They don't even need to drop high-cost kits.
If it takes them 3 days to get the resources to build even the simplest things, is that not going to make them quit? Reducing the resources and making it harder to actually build things is not making it new-player accessible, if anything it's doing the exact opposite. There are not a ton of galaxies worth building in, even for newer players.

Anecdotally, I don't agree with your assessment of what is or isn't worthwhile for a new player, but we are making a dev tool to get some diagnostic information about resource distribution so I will be able to know soon enough whether my opinion is backed up by data.

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:48 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
I'm still not entirely sure you understand what a lot of us are angry about.

devmins wrote:
We gave u explosion which added 3 extractor slots hurr durr y u mahd


And then you said it was our fault.

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:53 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
I dont see what part of the original announcement gave you the impression your gals woudl suddenly become "worth"

Quote:
4. 10 small explosion of either silicon, metal, nuke, baobabs. Adding between 60 and 8 of said resources onto matching planets in the area. Also scaling linearly from the center of the explosion. This is where the actual “good t0″ galaxies get added. The area are small enough that only the galaxy on which the explosion happen will get a large amount of resources, the neighboring galaxies will also see an significant increase but not as much.


Perhaps this section? Although Jey does state that the center of the explosion will have the 60 increase and the 8 is on the outside.

Quote:
The area are small enough that only the galaxy on which the explosion happen will get a large amount of resources

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:04 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
So, you don't see an issue with 70% of galaxies being worthless?

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:12 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
2 posts back you were talking about being misinformed about the "value increase" you were getting in your galaxies, which was what I was responding to. I don't think you were misinformed, I think you misinterpreted the announcement. The announcement stated to attend the lack of t0 resources that was caused from the wildspace shrink, not to make low DFs suddenly be (more) on par with high DFs.

Masterful wrote:
So, you don't see an issue with 70% of galaxies being worthless?

I don't think your definition of worthless is the same as mine is. I've been flying through your space and theres plenty of decent galaxies around, some better than others, like every where else.

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:50 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
Masterful wrote:
So, you don't see an issue with 70% of galaxies being worthless?


Nope. You can kill Traders if you want the good gals.

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:51 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
Pontius123 wrote:
Masterful wrote:
So, you don't see an issue with 70% of galaxies being worthless?


Nope. You can kill Traders if you want the good gals.


Way to throw us under the bus :lol:

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Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:57 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
where is the resources this uni ? the last 5 unis i've never had this much trouble finding galaxies with several tear 1 + resources , now there is 1 or 2 resources per galaxy ? and the amounts are very low .


besides the lower resources the ai bases are buying subsantually less ind commods , at a nerffed price ? if something doesn't change wild space wont be an option to build in . no profit , no reason to build there ... as for fermium , last several uni it was quite present even in the w1 areas of wild space . now it is almoost impossible to procure in wild space ...

i also have the scan speadsheets from last uni , the differences are astounding . one lower df gal had more resources than 3-4 of the galaxies this uni ...


Last edited by goofy on Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:47 am
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Post Re: new universe generation feature: Resource Explosion Pass
I'm sorry but those who are argueing that T0s are not Very low compared to last uni are just dead wrong. The Map is much much smaller than before and please consider that the majority of old galaxies that were warp 3 used to have "loads" in basic commodites on almost Everything.
I'm certain this wasn't planned, sure and Many many people saw the explosion as a way to beef the lower end galaxies to the level that all warp 3 ones used to be, Even with the overall planet count higher by around 2x in All galaxies by removing any significent quantity of T0s from lower df gals you have harmed any potential smaller/newer team far more than the ones able to fight over the better ones, Because how exactly can you make a decent production kit when surrounded by "bit mets" "bit this and that".

Not only that but again T0s should not be limited by DF was not the entire purpose of reducing the size of wildspace to increase the overall quality and make each gal worthwhile to take? and promoting the changes of territory conflicts.


(Oh and personally I have a higher DF galaxy that has decent T0s I'm making this because I find it ridiculous that many players were simply mislead about the resource boost and had NO idea that warp 3 galaxies would be So limited compared to Every other universe ss has had that i'm aware of.)

Should not every galaxy at least have a Reason to be built in, I loved the idea of shrinking wildspace and seriously increasing quality at first so teams /potential newer players from steam would be able to take a few galaxies together, But! since you have to defend them quite well now due to even things such as termites What would be the point in building in Any warp2 galaxy For any developing team when you can find More T0 commods in earthforce a no pvp zone to produce items.
sure some potential for rare commods but how does that outweigh 0 risk no defence required EF gals

tldr T0s got Mega-nerf overall Like a incredibly large nerf. /me irritated by the mess up and lack of information

Edit - If you want to make the highest DF galaxies sought after then give them a larger chance of multiple commodities on planets.


Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:11 pm
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