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Post Incoming Weapon Balance changes
Discussion topic for post: http://www.starsonata.com/announcements ... e-changes/


Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:43 pm
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Post Re: Incoming Weapon Balance changes
Im sure some will object to the changes, but appreciate the in-depth explanation and rationale behind it all. It will be nice to have some other useful weapon types to use.


Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:09 pm
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Post Re: Incoming Weapon Balance changes
Is this happening next uni (temp or real)?

Seems like a lot of moving parts if it is. Believe it or not the current player base does not appreciate being guinea pigs for the grander dream of a steam release. Major CBA if content seems rather shit to do for any length of time.

Thanks,

Rhys

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Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:26 pm
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Post Re: Incoming Weapon Balance changes
I also like the in-depth post.

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Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:01 am
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Post Re: Incoming Weapon Balance changes
Rounder wrote:
Is this happening next uni (temp or real)?

Seems like a lot of moving parts if it is. Believe it or not the current player base does not appreciate being guinea pigs for the grander dream of a steam release. Major CBA if content seems rather shit to do for any length of time.

Thanks,

Rhys


Other than our internal tests, the majority of the changes have been on test for the past few weeks, in various iterations.

These changes are not aimed at improving the steam release, quite the opposite. New players will not feel any of these changes. It is meant to improve the available viable weapons at the endgame.

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Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:01 am
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Post Re: Incoming Weapon Balance changes
I am confused as to why this is even being considered. The problem has never been weapons, that is why missile spam was the default leveling strategy. Direct fire weapons have always been under-powered, if anything, your corrections should have gone in the opposite direction, increasing the base power of weapons and limiting the modifiers (augs and mods) the weapons receive. That is where the exponential damage you are having to develop around is coming from.

Please, please do more testing on live before implementing this is game, this is a solution in search of a problem. We don't need weapon nerfs, we need resistance and mod nerfs.

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Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:20 pm
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Post Re: Incoming Weapon Balance changes
lrellok wrote:
I am confused as to why this is even being considered. The problem has never been weapons, that is why missile spam was the default leveling strategy. Direct fire weapons have always been under-powered, if anything, your corrections should have gone in the opposite direction, increasing the base power of weapons and limiting the modifiers (augs and mods) the weapons receive. That is where the exponential damage you are having to develop around is coming from.

Please, please do more testing on live before implementing this is game, this is a solution in search of a problem. We don't need weapon nerfs, we need resistance and mod nerfs.


These changes are unlikely to affect anyone who isn't at the very top end of the game, and at that point weapons are FAR better than missiles.

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Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:47 pm
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Post Re: Incoming Weapon Balance changes
MasterTrader wrote:
These changes are unlikely to affect anyone who isn't at the very top end of the game, and at that point weapons are FAR better than missiles.


Are we looking at the same graph? Tiger Breaths are loosing half their power. Kamekazi and Berhingers loose 2/3. That is EXACTLY when new players start running into leveling problems. If you where giving them SOME tracking so more then half the bolts actually connect, i could see it, but with a 50% miss rate...um, no, this is a horribly bad idea.

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Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:54 pm
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Post Re: Incoming Weapon Balance changes
I've already explained many times why Pulse Guns are not used and more importantly why nobody uses them: They are simply not fit for purpose when compared to Thoraxes and Torpedoes. Decreasing their overall size is not going to make everybody suddenly start using them. If you want people to use Pulse Guns, how about instead of nerfing the current popular weapons (thoraxes and torpedoes) how about you start adding pulse type weapons that are actually fucking useful? If you want my personal opinion on what would make me use pulse guns, see below:

- Size reduced (more than they already have been)
- Increased Range
- Increased Firing Rate - Slow ROF feels like I am playing Space Invaders (hint: Hermes Fire Maker)
- Increased Damage
- Increased Tracking
- A wider range of damage types


Quote:
Torpedo projectiles (and therefore Thoraxes) will no longer turn towards their targets during their spinning-up phase.

Torpedo projectiles will no longer get increased tracking distance from range bonuses. To compensate, their base tracking range was quadrupled.

There will also be some minor changes to their stats.


I agree with the first two changes, it doesn't make sense that torpedoes and thoraxes were changed to aim whilst spinning up anyway.

Why don't you be honest and tell everybody what you really did to Thoraxes and Torpedoes? I wouldn't call quadrupling their size (Don't even get me fucking started with the ninja nerf to hull space) and significantly cutting their range a minor change, and it's changes like these which you try to pass off as "minor" that actually piss people off the most. I do not understand the logic behind these kinds of changes. Is it seriously that difficult to increase the usefulness of something instead of nerfing the better alternatives back to the Ion Peashooter?

So, I will say it one more time. It's obvious that Pulse Guns are not fit for purpose. You need to look into why that is and I've said why I never use them but it might be different for others. But to take the axe to the weapons that everyone is currently using is an incredibly stupid way to do things.

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Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:48 am
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Post Re: Incoming Weapon Balance changes
horrific that youve left the stats out of the discussion post

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Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:03 am
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Post Re: Incoming Weapon Balance changes
sabre198 wrote:
horrific that youve left the stats out of the discussion post


I have quite intentionally left out any sort of specific stats. The post is to describe the direction we wish to take, but we are unlikely to get there in one iteration. Stats will change. I did not want to pretend that "this is it, here's what it will stay at forever and ever".

Over the past few days, we have continuially adjusted weapons based on feedback we have received and we will continue to do so until their stats and relative feel to other weapons match our goals.


While I have already responded to Tomzta09 on discord, I think it may be interesting to others:
I absolutely agree that just making pulseguns smaller will not suddenly make them good. In addition to their size, they were also simply not very fun to use.
There is however a complete set of new pulse guns with varying effects and behaviors available throughout tech 20-22. Hober has been willing to let people test them on the test server before, so if you're interested, contact us on discord to get a test run

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Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:04 am
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Post Re: Incoming Weapon Balance changes
so are you "live" tuning thoraxes on production server? or is tommy on about some proposed thorax changes in the future?

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Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:32 am
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Post Re: Incoming Weapon Balance changes
sabre198 wrote:
so are you "live" tuning thoraxes on production server? or is tommy on about some proposed thorax changes in the future?


Our first tuning pass happens on (virtual) paper and in the balance sheets. Then we move onto the test server for testing, internal and for volunteers. After that, the changes are pushed onto the live server.

Every step helps, however the feedback from the live server is the most numerous and the most important.

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Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:17 pm
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