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Post Re: Server / Client Patch 07.09.2017
FC Hostility tank doesn't work because hostility bonuses on the FC can't actually affect the hostility being transferred from the slaves. I asked Markoz and he confirmed with sticking 100 Sup Hostile/Aggravation and watching the total slave hostility remain unchanged.

So that's a code problem.


Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:17 pm
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Post Re: Server / Client Patch 07.09.2017
I performed experimentation on the test server.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=63220&p=766684#p766684

Quote:
FC Antuayu, geared for most DPS:

15,269 DPS, sustainable for 176.6 seconds.
Inbuilt that boosts to 20,318 DPS, for 10 seconds.
Most resistances at 62%.
Inbuilt that boosts resistances to 81% for 10 seconds.
Max Shields: 253k
Max Energy: 550k
Top speed: 125
Hull Space: 2651

FC Zeus Throne, geared for most DPS:

13,827 DPS, sustainable for 138.5 seconds.
Inbuilt fighter and missile generators and launchers.
Most resistances at 62%. Physical resistance at 81%.
Max shields: 181k
Max energy: 457k
Top speed: 110
Hull space: 2420.

FC Paxian Battle Frigate, geared for most DPS:

12,623 DPS, sustainable for 200 seconds.
No inbuilts at all.
Most resistances at 53%.
Max shields: 195k (was ~350k)
Max energy: 254k (was ~500k)
Top speed: 132
Hull Space: 1737

I don't know about you but that looks like a pretty straight forward upgrade, PBF -> ZT -> Antuayu.

Sorry if t22 is more costly than t21 is more costly than t20. Even with the original PBF stats, that's a pretty clear upgrade.

I'm going to go ahead and say it's going to be similar for gunners.

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Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:30 pm
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Post Re: Server / Client Patch 07.09.2017
Share your data, your dataset is incomplete. Where are the augs/gear/etc. What did you change between setups, what stayed the same. If you used standard gear, just say that so someone can replicate your findings.

And for the love of all things adum, stop focusing solely on Fleet Commander in this situation. If we're going to talk about old content and the intentions behind it, it was designed with the idea that it would be closer to a heavy fighter than a capital ship. That also meant lower inbuilt aug mods, and JeffL himself (As enkelin mentioned) was completely surprised when he found out that it didn't have low aug mods because that was what it should have been. You are "supposed" to use the speed and 3 augs to maneuver and not get hit as much.

Also, it was designed before RC20 was available. It only became a bot after RC20 came out because a T20 FC combat bot that was incredibly tanky (It has higher effective shield bank than any other 3 augmenter Tech 20 ship available.) and had 3 augs wasn't easily available. It also had a huge amount of energy bank so you could stick MF bots on it and MF Emp Rays for a significant amount of time without your bots banking out before something died.

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Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:48 pm
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Post Re: Server / Client Patch 07.09.2017
MasterTrader wrote:
Share your data, your dataset is incomplete. Where are the augs/gear/etc. What did you change between setups, what stayed the same. If you used standard gear, just say that so someone can replicate your findings.

And for the love of all things adum, stop focusing solely on Fleet Commander in this situation. If we're going to talk about old content and the intentions behind it, it was designed with the idea that it would be closer to a heavy fighter than a capital ship. That also meant lower inbuilt aug mods, and JeffL himself (As enkelin mentioned) was completely surprised when he found out that it didn't have low aug mods because that was what it should have been. You are "supposed" to use the speed and 3 augs to maneuver and not get hit as much.

Also, it was designed before RC20 was available. It only became a bot after RC20 came out because a T20 FC combat bot that was incredibly tanky (It has higher effective shield bank than any other 3 augmenter Tech 20 ship available.) and had 3 augs wasn't easily available. It also had a huge amount of energy bank so you could stick MF bots on it and MF Emp Rays for a significant amount of time without your bots banking out before something died.


2 CAL, 1 Mattock on the PBFs. That's the highest DPS augmentation I've found on PBFs without sacrificing too much of anything else.

1 Cerberus, 1 Capital Offensive on both the ZT and Antuayu.

I want to know what the hell Jeff thought for the past SIX years this ship was in the game with no change.

And again, it has WEAK RESISTS. It might have that high augmods, but it has weaker resistances.

And now, MF bots are nerfed so that you can't have high DPS and last for awhile at the same time.

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Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:56 pm
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Post Re: Server / Client Patch 07.09.2017
cej1120con wrote:
I want to know what the hell Jeff thought for the past SIX years this ship was in the game with no change.

And again, it has WEAK RESISTS. It might have that high augmods, but it has weaker resistances.


I would like to know as well, he's had a lot of odd, random game changing thoughts recently with all of these bizarre changes, no?

This is something people seem to have forgotten. The PBF is not the Prawn, it was never even close to being the Prawn. If anything the PBF was what the Prawn should have been and was the only way it could have possibly worked. Regardless of the 3rd aug slot and the built in shield/energy bonuses, the tankiest PBFs were fragile as hell. It's a bit out of the ordinary having a high end capital ship with 3 aug slots just like with a 4 aug slot Heavy Fighter. To compensate for the third slot, you had quite possibly the worst resistances you could imagine, terrible hull space and a big loss of ROF built in. All of this made the PBF reasonably balanced, there were no PBFs outclassing every other ship to the point where every Gunner was in a PBF now were they? Whereas the balancing around the Prawns 4th slot was purely based on the difficulty of the blueprint at the time, when it should have been much weaker resistances e.g. 0 - 20%, crap hull space and crap built in stats. This is why the PBF was balanced almost perfectly the way it was. This recent nerf has just signed another useful part of the game into the dustbin of history.

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Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:49 am
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Post Re: Server / Client Patch 07.09.2017
churchills reasoning is that he doesnt want the pbf to be the third best gunner ship

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Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:57 am
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Post Re: Server / Client Patch 07.09.2017
We've discussed the PBF subject with the dev team and the Shield bonus will be increased from 200% to 300%, Energy bank from 200% to 450%. Patch will be sometime Friday (or Saturday morning)

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Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:31 pm
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Post Re: Server / Client Patch 07.09.2017
DarkSteel wrote:
We've discussed the PBF subject with the dev team and the Shield bonus will be increased from 200% to 300%, Energy bank from 200% to 450%. Patch will be sometime Friday (or Saturday morning)

The PBF is still dead. Not worth the EFDN and Pax Astro to make it anymore.

In fact, I'd rather it be removed from the game and be given credit compensation for its build costs. I would resub for that.

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Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:35 pm
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Post Re: Server / Client Patch 07.09.2017
Buying Johnston V2's PBF slaves for 2b each. That's the credit cost to build them.


Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:02 pm
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Post Re: Server / Client Patch 07.09.2017
Max235 wrote:
Buying Johnston V2's PBF slaves for 2b each. That's the credit cost to build them.


In what delusional world do you live in where am EFDN, pax Astro, and those annoying factory parts worth only 2b, let alone the annoyance of relentlessly grinding Mother for a 1-use BP?

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Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:16 pm
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Post Re: Server / Client Patch 07.09.2017
Costs exactly 1,415,702,500 credits to build a Paxian Battle Frigate.


Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:35 pm
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Post Re: Server / Client Patch 07.09.2017
Max235 wrote:
Costs exactly 1,415,702,500 credits to build a Paxian Battle Frigate.


Alright you want to be a retard, let's be a retard.



1,000,000 Metals @ 50 Credits each at an AI base = 50m
200,000,000 Metals @ 50 Credits each at an AI base = 10b
1,000,000 Silicon @ 30 Credits each at an AI base = 30m
1,000,000 Baobabs @ 400 Credits each at an AI base = 400m
1,000,000 Microchips @ 100 Credits each at an AI base = 100m
10,000 Personal Computers @ 4000 Credits each on the market = 40m
1,000 Fembots @ 300k Credits each on the market = 300m
10,000 Peasants @ 400 Credits each at an AI base = 4m
200,000,000 Credits = 200m
2 Complicated Factory Parts - Since you get these back I'll just call these 0

Oh would you look at that, 11.124bil commodity cost.
According to the market, the effort cost to obtain a PBF BP is worth about 14.5bil.

Well now we're at 25.624bil.

1 Earthforce Dreadnought
Retailed on /mc at 2.4bil. We can take that as a working pricetag.

We're now at 28.024bil.

1 Pax Astronomica
Not on the market. Sad! Tell you what, this costs 800mil to make in raw credits. The Astronomica Boomerangs are valued at 100mil on the market. I'm going to round down and say the cost to get the rest of its commodities is just 100m too (it's probably more).


Okay, so, my final tally to build a PBF is 29.024bil.
I wonder what someone would sell it for, then?
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Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:40 am
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Post Re: Server / Client Patch 07.09.2017
Metals = Free, I'm getting ~1.5b a day.
Silicon = Free, I'm getting ~2b a day.
Baobabs = Free, I'm getting ~800m a day.
Nukes = Free, I'm getting ~300m a day.
Space Boomerangs = Free, just go kill the dumb Astras.
Astro Boomerang = Also free, kill Marco. 100% chance.
Fabulous Factory Parts = Basically free. I calculated the prom cost to produce FFPs, and CFPs, in the credit expense.

Killing Mother? Ehh, about 10 minutes with my sniper because she has a lot of bank and I need to build full SA100 in the process. There's no credit cost to actually get to her. 5 minutes as engineer because Solarians can be bullshit at times. Depending on if I'm not too lazy, I'd argue somewhere between 5 and 15 minutes for my SD, Seer, and Gunner to achieve the same thing.

You can whine and troll and complain all you like, but the actual credit cost you actually use up and to use actually a few more times is under 2b. Maybe it's valued to you for more, maybe you can get more profit by selling to AI or converting to IC, but you're not actually using credits to do so.

So the cost is under 2b.

As for your whining. Remember that RC20 came after the PBF was added, not the other way around. There's only three ships in the entire game (and none are the PBF) that were designed as a slave over a playership. The PBF is a lightly armored attack frigate. The effort/buildcost/dgcost of having to get 30x more creditvalue to actually do more dps is ludicrous, and that's the developer argument.

And to bid you goodbye for tonight, the best way to get customer service to either hang up (if you decide to use a phone) or call for security and or police if you're in a building...is to throw a temper tantrum.


Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:24 am
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Post Re: Server / Client Patch 07.09.2017
Max235 wrote:
So the cost is under 2b.


The EFDN alone sells for more than 2bil. You're actually retarded.

All those things? They are NOT FREE. They take TIME to get. TIME IS MONEY.


Churchill. Since you want to commit an ad hominem fallacy, let me do that too: Years ago the community considered you an obnoxious annoyance who thought they knew how a game should work but was actually an incompetent moron. That's not changed. You took some lengthy break and for some ungodly came back to spew more dumbfuck retardation.

Accusing me of throwing a tantrum is a new low for you, when the situation in question is the nerfing of a six year old ship that has been a setup standard for years.

Wait and see what happens if the devs pull these types of changes AFTER steam release. Do you think a game could retain players if the devs nerf setups every month? After awhile people are going to quit. The NUMBER ONE annoyance I heard from the reddit space invasion players who are no longer here are that their setups kept becoming worthless or unusable after a couple months because item stats were changed.

Lastly, do you think a game could retain players when it keeps around an asshat like yourself who goes around telling people "hey guys what are you complaining about that item you want is FREE because it only takes 50 hours of gameplay to get ONE of!"

I value my time, thank you. And I don't value it playing a game where the time spent may be devalued by a sudden change of a six year old ship that has been used a certain way for years.

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Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:02 am
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Post Re: Server / Client Patch 07.09.2017
Johnston, no one cares about what you value a PBF at. Fact is, they are cheap as balls to build with free, yes free, materials that everyone has on-hand. PBFs are not hard to get, and you don't have to spend hours in Mother to get the BPs, it's like a 25% drop rate, which is why I have a big fuckin' stack of BPs, and when I choose to convert those BPs into ships I typically come out of pocket about 2b to make one. So please, cry more about how PBFs need to be stronger than Mastos or whatever the fuck it is you're on about. Honestly I have no idea what your point is because you fail spectacularly at communication, but I know right now you're hinging it on the cost or difficulty you associate with getting a PBF, a cost and difficulty that seems to be entirely fabricated for the purpose of your argument...

Anyway, back to WoW, assholes.


Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:30 am
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