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Should we have team levels for PvP?
Poll ended at Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:28 pm
Yes 46%  46%  [ 22 ]
No 35%  35%  [ 17 ]
Don't know 17%  17%  [ 8 ]
Some other idea (specify) 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 48

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Lady of Ice wrote:
Try actually reading my post next time, it might clue you up a bit.


Currently, PvB is BROKEN as healers can't be touched and so on.


Do you want a practical demonstration, or are you willing to accept the theory?


Dont patronise me.... If you cant see that people fighting there own level is fair thats your own stupidity not mine, from what you said Healing out of your own level would be the problem and theres a simple solution to that.

People can only heal within there own squad, the squad get a full pvp range of the lowest and highest player.

Pheonix's practical demonstrations seem to involve all their team members leaving, lol

~ferret


Sun May 28, 2006 3:58 pm
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You're ignorant of the realities of the situation. Go take a fly around, see how many bases have gone down.

I've personally watched a base shoot one player constantly who was being healed by 3 healers whilst four other players happily attacked it without any danger to themselves. Whilst 4 other bases around it didn't shoot any of them.

Take the time to actually find out what's going on.


Oh, and you clearly didn't read my post - I forced almost all of my members to leave to stop them getting bottle-necked & camped for a uni on low level base alts, as that's what Nobody demanded - no marking if they were still in Phoenix. He threatened a bottle neck, and I'm sure he could have made them.

Again, don't try and suggest you know anything about a situation that you don't.


p.s. Your 3 level 84 bases in Ring clearly show you understand and are afraid of the situation, most alts get to level 140ish with some decent EE / CA... those are pure fear bases. And you know it.


Sun May 28, 2006 4:12 pm
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Lady of Ice wrote:
You're ignorant of the realities of the situation. Go take a fly around, see how many bases have gone down.

I've personally watched a base shoot one player constantly who was being healed by 3 healers whilst four other players happily attacked it without any danger to themselves. Whilst 4 other bases around it didn't shoot any of them.

Take the time to actually find out what's going on.


Oh, and you clearly didn't read my post - I forced almost all of my members to leave to stop them getting bottle-necked & camped for a uni on low level base alts, as that's what Nobody demanded - no marking if they were still in Phoenix. He threatened a bottle neck, and I'm sure he could have made them.

Again, don't try and suggest you know anything about a situation that you don't.


p.s. Your 3 level 84 bases in Ring clearly show you understand and are afraid of the situation, most alts get to level 140ish with some decent EE / CA... those are pure fear bases. And you know it.


They arnt my bases weirdo...

You been back, what a month and you've had 1 team fail already says it all really..

~ferret


Sun May 28, 2006 4:18 pm
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It "failed" because I pointed out that base PvB was theoretically broken without marking on healers, and someone kindly tried it out on me. Whoever's bases they are, they all got magically a lot lower level recently - they were up in the 500's at the start of the uni.

Done discussing it with a troll.


:roll:


Sun May 28, 2006 4:39 pm
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Lady of Ice wrote:
It "failed" because I pointed out that base PvB was theoretically broken without marking on healers, and someone kindly tried it out on me. Whoever's bases they are, they all got magically a lot lower level recently - they were up in the 500's at the start of the uni.

Done discussing it with a troll.


:roll:


Lol they've been the same persons base right from the begining the only ones that have changed are the others which are on my merchant.

Its silly to suggest such a thing anyway. I've had bases in ring the last three uni's and they were on my main for most of the time (aprt from this last uni) it doesnt matter what level you are you wont kill them that easily anyway.

You complain about low levels that can kill bases in one post and then complain about low level bases in another. :roll:

~ferret


Sun May 28, 2006 5:28 pm
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Please stop it...

And I don't really fancy this idea b/c it'll lead to problems like ppl going to fight each other, people who didn't want fighting for a while and turned them selves on non-p2p then wanted to help but can't... shield monkeys having non-p2p all the time but of course be able to heal their team m8s without any chance on dying (as long as they don't heal themselves to death) etc.. etc... etc..

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Sun May 28, 2006 8:55 pm
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2kewl4u wrote:
Please stop it...

And I don't really fancy this idea b/c it'll lead to problems like ppl going to fight each other, people who didn't want fighting for a while and turned them selves on non-p2p then wanted to help but can't... shield monkeys having non-p2p all the time but of course be able to heal their team m8s without any chance on dying (as long as they don't heal themselves to death) etc.. etc... etc..


Which is why we are discussing TEAM lvls for PvP.

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Mon May 29, 2006 8:18 am
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This s great jeff, now lone bases have a better chance of survivl with lol lvl alts killing them. BUT thos would promote alot of war due to the much more frequent PvP, you should change the way wars go to balance this out more

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Mon May 29, 2006 7:33 pm
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mejunkie wrote:
2kewl4u wrote:
Please stop it...

And I don't really fancy this idea b/c it'll lead to problems like ppl going to fight each other, people who didn't want fighting for a while and turned them selves on non-p2p then wanted to help but can't... shield monkeys having non-p2p all the time but of course be able to heal their team m8s without any chance on dying (as long as they don't heal themselves to death) etc.. etc... etc..


Which is why we are discussing TEAM lvls for PvP.


I meant I didn't really fancy the "be able to put yourself on non-pvp" idea that was mentioned before.

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Mon May 29, 2006 7:48 pm
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Actually atm its as unbalanced as it can be. A team with all low lvl base alts (looks mainly at Infinite Dreams) could attack the other teams bases without fear of retaliation. A team based lvl protect would mean that noone could hide if war was declared. Either stick it out with your team, or simply leave the team.

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Mon May 29, 2006 7:53 pm
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mejunkie wrote:
Actually atm its as unbalanced as it can be. A team with all low lvl base alts (looks mainly at Infinite Dreams) could attack the other teams bases without fear of retaliation. A team based lvl protect would mean that noone could hide if war was declared. Either stick it out with your team, or simply leave the team.


Pfft, the only reason my bases are low is cause im waiting to lvl your ass :P

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Mon May 29, 2006 8:06 pm
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mejunkie wrote:
(looks mainly at Infinite Dreams)
Dont look at me, i just started a week ago.

And i only have SM3... :roll:


Mon May 29, 2006 8:36 pm
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I havent read the whole topic, but a few things I would like to comment

Gamejunkie said "With this system (team based level) will get my level 40 alt base pwned but I can then come with my pax and rawwr".... Some players have a job, and not all the student spend their life on video games. We all live in differnet countries. So when ppl raid a base the owner might simply be in bed, and cannot come react to the attack. When he gets up, crap, all I have been working on is now wasted.

On the other end, I agree something has to be done.... I simply dont know what. I even think my shiny achilles bases a bit useless. They hold the gqlqxies, but they dont protect nearby bases.

About bases supporting each other, it will NOT work, except in GM... Look at galaxies with plannets that have 4k orbits. It often happens that the nearest base around is like 4k away than far plannets. They cannot support each other efficiently.

Base level issue:
===========

A part of the problem imo is that level actually means nothing (as stated before), mostly with bases. I think the level should be linked with the tech of the kit. Here is a dummy example it is not my job to give actual figures, but lets consider:
- a ambro base with mastery 14 and decent (but not the best possible) augs.
- Estimate its fire power, shield, reco.
- And then, suppose 5 uber noobs acting together should be barely able to kill it. The level that those 5 players should need to perform the killing is then the level of a tech14 kit.

That way, the base owner can choose wether to level or not to for instance to get base tweaking.

To avoid ppl flooding adonis bases, there could be a rule stating that if u can lay tech 16, all the bases below tech14 would have a tech 14 level. This way, the base user is made to use big bases if he wants to keep a level protection.

Healer level issue:
============

This would not solve the healing by uber player issue. What could be done here is that during PVP, if a higher level comes and heal the lower level, his pvp range is shifted to the high level's range for like 10 minutes. This way, the healer have to be of the same level as the players actually fighting.



With those two "solution", the opponenets in a fight would have a similar strength... So both side have a chance to win, not like what happened with old time pvp system....


Tue May 30, 2006 5:47 am
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Nice post Enji

Enji wrote:
Gamejunkie said "With this system (team based level) will get my level 40 alt base pwned but I can then come with my pax and rawwr".... Some players have a job, and not all the student spend their life on video games. We all live in differnet countries. So when ppl raid a base the owner might simply be in bed, and cannot come react to the attack. When he gets up, crap, all I have been working on is now wasted.


But any and all team member online would AUTOMATICALLY be in the right PvP range to attack back and defend the gal. And if I am not online personnally atleast I can retaliate against the team when I DO get back.

Enji wrote:
About bases supporting each other, it will NOT work, except in GM... Look at galaxies with plannets that have 4k orbits. It often happens that the nearest base around is like 4k away than far plannets. They cannot support each other efficiently.

1. There are a lot of close galaxis.
2. For the spread out galaxies. Place the achielles base on the planet closes to the sun and use range augs and Bowstring.


Enji wrote:
I think the level should be linked with the tech of the kit.

Giving bases lvls based on their kits is no good. What If I want to have achilles bases and adonis bases in the same system? I might want to use that last 2 base slots I have which isn’t good enough for an Achielles base, but might be good enough for an adonis base extracing silicon. Some team Noobies might want to have a argonaut/ambrosia base in the same galaxy. My achielles/Annihilator base would then be out of their lvl range.

Enji wrote:
This would not solve the healing by uber player issue. What could be done here is that during PVP, if a higher level comes and heal the lower level, his pvp range is shifted to the high level's range for like 10 minutes. This way, the healer have to be of the same level as the players actually fighting.

If the healer is on the opposing team, and the opposing team is in lvl range (with team lvls), then the healer will also be in lvl range. You might not be able to mark him which is a pain, but declare war and all team players are marked enemy (or so I believe was the idea, but it might be buggy). Otherwise you can turn your bases aggro, they will then shoot the healer depending on various issues.
If the healer is a hired healer from another team, that might of course cause problems. But that is no different from today.

Conclusion:
Lvls based on teams is imo the most fair way to fight wars. Maybe It shouldn’t be linked to the highest lvl player on the team, but team lvls is by far the most fair PvP system I can think of.

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Tue May 30, 2006 2:16 pm
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mejunkie wrote:
Conclusion:
Lvls based on teams is imo the most fair way to fight wars. Maybe It shouldn’t be linked to the highest lvl player on the team, but team lvls is by far the most fair PvP system I can think of.


The problem it is impossible unedr the current pvp foundation to have a solution that will be fair... Not even remotely close to fair... Either way, some group of players will get royally screwed over and abused... Right now its those higher level players who can't use their characters against low lvl base alts that are getting screwed, but at least in that 'screwedness' (is that a word) they aren't LOSING assets... If you put the negative emphasis on the lower lvl players, they will be losing large amounts of assets in any war... IMO, the lower lvl players are already getting a harder and harder time reaching the point of being a 'high lvl' (I mean high lvl not just as level, but in finances and actual strength too.)

I could propose a system that I'm positive would be quite balanced from almost all angles, but it would take more programming to implement so might be best just to put it in client 2...


Tue May 30, 2006 5:32 pm
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