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Should we have team levels for PvP?
Poll ended at Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:28 pm
Yes 46%  46%  [ 22 ]
No 35%  35%  [ 17 ]
Don't know 17%  17%  [ 8 ]
Some other idea (specify) 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 48

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IAmMe2 wrote:
mejunkie wrote:
Conclusion:
Lvls based on teams is imo the most fair way to fight wars. Maybe It shouldn’t be linked to the highest lvl player on the team, but team lvls is by far the most fair PvP system I can think of.


The problem it is impossible unedr the current pvp foundation to have a solution that will be fair... Not even remotely close to fair... Either way, some group of players will get royally screwed over and abused... Right now its those higher level players who can't use their characters against low lvl base alts that are getting screwed, but at least in that 'screwedness' (is that a word) they aren't LOSING assets... If you put the negative emphasis on the lower lvl players, they will be losing large amounts of assets in any war... IMO, the lower lvl players are already getting a harder and harder time reaching the point of being a 'high lvl' (I mean high lvl not just as level, but in finances and actual strength too.)


You hit the nail there, the problem lies in the ALTS. My DM lvl 1400 is wide open to attacks, while someone with a MF main can use lvl 100 base alts. A good (high lvl team) can help each other not only in base gear but also in finding the right augs for the bases. (No more Hestia's for you Cyphe). The bases will be better even if its owned by a noob lvl 200 because he can get acces to better augs. The team is likely to have a merchant who can help them move the large base gear around. (When I started in Pantalones I needed other team members to move my gear around for me.) Therefor my bases became "better" then the lvl represents.

Being in a high lvl team has mayor benefits (Ask anyone in Olympus/Mercs/Pants/Imperium/LC)*. It should also come with risks. You may think that "Im a lvl 200 newbie, if I join pants any high lvl player can attack me". Yes that is very true. But If someone DOES attack you can call for the best cavelry. Honestly ive flown around with lots of Gear on my lvl 723 CA, with a mythstream on. Anyone can attack him, and pwn him. Doesn't mean its gonna happen though, because that would mean war, just in the same way that an attack on a lvl 200 player on Pants would lead to war.

The protection in a Team lvl based system comes from the team, not from some artifical lvl that says nothing about strength.


*(Traders might be the opposite though)

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Tue May 30, 2006 7:28 pm
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Totally agree with Junkie.


Tue May 30, 2006 7:43 pm
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yup, its the way to go. even when ppl see others they can pwn, they often don't because of tha flag below their name :D


Wed May 31, 2006 2:26 am
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mejunkie wrote:
You hit the nail there, the problem lies in the ALTS. My DM lvl 1400 is wide open to attacks, while someone with a MF main can use lvl 100 base alts. A good (high lvl team) can help each other not only in base gear but also in finding the right augs for the bases. (No more Hestia's for you Cyphe). The bases will be better even if its owned by a noob lvl 200 because he can get acces to better augs. The team is likely to have a merchant who can help them move the large base gear around. (When I started in Pantalones I needed other team members to move my gear around for me.) Therefor my bases became "better" then the lvl represents.

Being in a high lvl team has mayor benefits (Ask anyone in Olympus/Mercs/Pants/Imperium/LC)*. It should also come with risks. You may think that "Im a lvl 200 newbie, if I join pants any high lvl player can attack me". Yes that is very true. But If someone DOES attack you can call for the best cavelry. Honestly ive flown around with lots of Gear on my lvl 723 CA, with a mythstream on. Anyone can attack him, and pwn him. Doesn't mean its gonna happen though, because that would mean war, just in the same way that an attack on a lvl 200 player on Pants would lead to war.

The protection in a Team lvl based system comes from the team, not from some artifical lvl that says nothing about strength.

*(Traders might be the opposite though)


Either way, team based lvls leaves it too easy for someone to abuse...

How about a very simple answer... PvP range is a combination of 2 things...

1) The current system remains in place but add...

2) All characters on an account are open to the pvp range of all higher level characters.

Now thats a really simple way of fixing it, and would need a few *s in there to prevent abuse, but it would work reasonably well for all parties involved, prevent abuse, of lower lvls by higher lvls, but would allow people to combat other equal lvled people's alts... Would open up the pvp range for those that are able to do it, but keep newbies from being abused by higherups... Not a PERFECT solution, but damn near close to it... At least then someone would have to pay for another account to have 'low level base alts'... More money to fund the game that way... Thats really the only thing keeping it from being 'perfect' I think...


Wed May 31, 2006 4:07 am
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i couldnt realy be botherd to rad all this so dunno if someone said this but cus of this new pvp thing pants r at war with traders and cus we were able to hit lower alts and taht they started to CHEAT by leaveing team (mostly healers) and still help the traders without us able to hit them.

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Wed May 31, 2006 8:14 am
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sfgc the borg wrote:
indeed rifline did that just so we couldnt attack him. since when war kicked in a good number of our chars could hit him.


And you guys had healers and combat chars helping you from other teams, so I think one of their healers leaving is more than fair...


Wed May 31, 2006 9:45 am
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Seperating a persons level from his actual level is just asking for trouble IMO.

~ferret


Wed May 31, 2006 5:01 pm
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IAmMe2 wrote:
sfgc the borg wrote:
indeed rifline did that just so we couldnt attack him. since when war kicked in a good number of our chars could hit him.


And you guys had healers and combat chars helping you from other teams, so I think one of their healers leaving is more than fair...


On 1 maybe 2 occasions did another healer assist. sxp was seen near many of the battles true, but he never healed us. I tried offering him money, but Caly had him on a short leach.

The PvP system is broken, we can agree on that. But leaving the team to lower your risk is with the current system a fair enough tactic.

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Wed May 31, 2006 5:37 pm
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Its not something I can respect, but its a fact of the game in its current state...

BTW Junkie, what you think about the 'lvl shared by account' thing?


...and ferret... There are ways around that using an account based system...


Wed May 31, 2006 5:55 pm
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IAmMe2 wrote:
Its not something I can respect, but its a fact of the game in its current state...

BTW Junkie, what you think about the 'lvl shared by account' thing?


...and ferret... There are ways around that using an account based system...


An account based system is even worse, you cant use more than one player at once and you can be pwned just because you have a have 1 account and a level 1500 account for example, or a member of your team does, and what about people with alts in other teams, you'd never know what your pvp level actually was.

~ferret


Wed May 31, 2006 8:28 pm
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u cant extend the lvl of one character to the entire account. that would only be fair if all characters were automaticly at the lvl of the highest char, and that would be broken.

so its unfair, a low lvl alt would be low and weak, yet it would be vulnerable to insanely high attack.

I think team lvls would actually work because in teams, every1 tends to be the same lvl. the only time ive seen a lvl 500 on a team with a bunch of lvl 50s, he was just betraying them (that was so mean coeus :( )


Wed May 31, 2006 8:31 pm
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TinyTimZamboni wrote:
u cant extend the lvl of one character to the entire account. that would only be fair if all characters were automaticly at the lvl of the highest char, and that would be broken.

so its unfair, a low lvl alt would be low and weak, yet it would be vulnerable to insanely high attack.

I think team lvls would actually work because in teams, every1 tends to be the same lvl. the only time ive seen a lvl 500 on a team with a bunch of lvl 50s, he was just betraying them (that was so mean coeus :( )


Hardly... Pants have members from 2-300 right up to lvl 1800+... Mercs have 100-1500... Part of the reason that we were actually having a tough time this war is because our lvls are so spread out, we can't really concentrate a bunch of players on one base...

The idea behind pvp lvls being based off an account is that say a lvl 1500 goes and kills a lvl 300 with a lvl 1500 alt, the person killed just switches characters and goes and fights back... Besides, generally a higher lvl person can easily afford gg and gear for their low lvl alts... If they lose it, its not a huge deal... The advantage to this system though is 1) is has nothing to do with you team (as team based lvls would be ok for the "top 10" teams, but for all the smaller teams, they'd be absolutely screwed just by having a higher lvl characters... How are a bunch of newbs supposed to learn how to compete at higher lvls if they don't get to deal with the higher lvls in their team? With account based lvls, people would always be competing with people of similar caliber...


Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:56 am
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no, if i wanted to start over, i would still have to deal with people who were at a much higher lvl. I think a team lvl if the fix. this way, low lvl base alts would be vulnerable to opposing teams, and teams of the same caliber can fight each other. Yet some1 on a high lvl team (almost always a high lvl player, or an alt) cannot attack low lvl players on little teams.


Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:53 am
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