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Team:
Rank: Officer Main: number666.5 Level: 8924 Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 4:12 pm Posts: 3457 Location: nowhere |
Tomzta09 wrote: People think the danger factor increases as you go deeper into a DG because if your DG is big enough, you will notice a change in AIs as you go deeper. For example if you find a DG that starts off with Bigger Greens, you go about 2 levels in you can sometimes find Level 1.5k Banas, and the level before the boss contains 2 Multifiring Icepicks. That is why people tend to think the Danger Factor increases, it has nothing to do with the Loot. That's why I have believed it anyway. Another example would be starting off with MF Reavers, then Platties, and then you suddenly start finding Stellas. or just stellas in the whole DG, they need to be less common, they are more common then MFR, platties and lvl 2k forgies been up till last uni Blue Dwarf wrote: 93578 wrote: I'm willing to wipe the page and start over if there's a more accurate way of telling, so whats the variables of telling the drop? Honestly, the best way you can tell is simply through testing. Or joining the dev team, but that'd only give you access to the drop table files, dungeon spawns file and the documentation I wrote up. Not to blow my own trumpet at all, but I think it'd be fair to say I have the best knowledge on dungeon generation, AI, possible drops and how they're picked; so maybe if you ask real nicely.... oh great sir bobbo, keep it secret to everyone but your lovely emperor! i demand information!!! i wouldnt get much from you anyway _________________ Valkyrie300 wrote: You need to thoroughly think before sprouting exaggerated statements |
Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:08 am |
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Content Dev
Team:
Rank: Director Main: Blue Dwarf Level: 2067 Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:39 pm Posts: 3336 |
Tomzta09 wrote: People think the danger factor increases as you go deeper into a DG because if your DG is big enough, you will notice a change in AIs as you go deeper. For example if you find a DG that starts off with Bigger Greens, you go about 2 levels in you can sometimes find Level 1.5k Banas, and the level before the boss contains 2 Multifiring Icepicks. That is why people tend to think the Danger Factor increases, it has nothing to do with the Loot. That's why I have believed it anyway. Another example would be starting off with MF Reavers, then Platties, and then you suddenly start finding Stellas. This is quite true, although loot is also very DF specific, well, kinda, it's a bit complicated. But for 99% of cases, loot and DF directly proportional, you just don't really see it because: From the information I've given you so far, average DF increase per level is about 375 (which is miles off) (thanks to Nabaco telling me the average last night). Randomness in drops You have no idea how the drops are set up (except that it seems to be stuff that higher level people would want at higher DFs) Nabaco queried me last night on it... And I can't really remember what I told him now, except that, a great testing tool is at your disposal, although it requires two players. Unfortunately, Nabaco can't use it. _________________ "What you mean you killed him cha cha cha?!" Support |
Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:03 am |
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Team:
Rank: Officer Main: Maxathron Level: 4065 Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:16 am Posts: 5804 |
It requires access to perilous space?
Otherwise Nabaco can simply ask one of his teammates to help. Unless...asking for help is a really hard thing to do and thats why Subspace took so long!? |
Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:36 am |
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Member
Team:
Rank: Officer Main: topbuzzz Level: 8015 Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:31 pm Posts: 4347 |
dumbest idea ever filling dg's with stella and roc's for a t20 station kit. Ye i know u put HGS in the drop table, whoopee doo
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Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:19 am |
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Team:
Rank: Officer Main: number666.5 Level: 8924 Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 4:12 pm Posts: 3457 Location: nowhere |
sabre198 wrote: dumbest idea ever filling dg's with stella and roc's for a t20 station kit. Ye i know u put HGS in the drop table, whoopee doo yes stellas in DGs as they are now was the worst idea only way to kill a whole DG of stella's is a squad of stealthy snipers or HM monk + prawn sniper, those things have 1-2m shieldbank and only are weak to phys, and what do they drop? credits only, no loot like 80% of hte DG AI do _________________ Valkyrie300 wrote: You need to thoroughly think before sprouting exaggerated statements |
Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:44 am |
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Content Dev
Team:
Rank: Director Main: Blue Dwarf Level: 2067 Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:39 pm Posts: 3336 |
lordjeroen wrote: those things have 1-2m shieldbank Lol. _________________ "What you mean you killed him cha cha cha?!" Support |
Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:03 am |
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Team:
Rank: Officer Main: Maxathron Level: 4065 Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:16 am Posts: 5804 |
So, it's weak to snipers.
Now you have to nerf snipers. And then rebalance 75% of T20+ content. Smooth move. |
Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:02 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Councilor Main: 1-800-USE_THE_FORCE! Level: 9597 Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:36 pm Posts: 2769 |
Would be cool if you would allow all the stellas to actually drop solarian gear, they are a waste of time at the moment.
_________________ "I still miss the Crack Whores..." - Jeff_L |
Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:59 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Main: Stabberz Level: 2414 Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:55 am Posts: 3696 |
So I resubbed after what I think is about half a year and I did my first DF400 dg.
My first run through was against Ohms. I lost roughly a third of my shield bank upon entering the DG, and then I sighed in frustration when I found that my nearly 2k ranged Preachers were not enough to outrange them, and that trying to missile them to death would require a lot of pain due to range limitations. So fuck that, I bailed. My second run through was against Stellas. My Preachers were only just able break their regen, and do next to no damage. Then I found that killing them requires about 15 million credits in MIRV's to kill them, along with a large amount of time. So after killing an entire level in who knows how long, I bailed because I actually lost money, while barely gaining a single level, and only 1/10th of my energy bank left. Then I tried a DF350 DG and died at the boss after 10 levels because the boss was a Hive. So yeah, my DG experiences so far haven't been fun. _________________ Blue Dwarf wrote: In space, no one can hear you cha cha cha. |
Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:27 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Councilor Main: 1-800-USE_THE_FORCE! Level: 9597 Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:36 pm Posts: 2769 |
You shouldnt be able to solo any of those DGs anyways
_________________ "I still miss the Crack Whores..." - Jeff_L |
Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:32 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Officer Main: Maxathron Level: 4065 Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:16 am Posts: 5804 |
As I've gathered from "reputable" sources (ie human calculators), Ohms are designed to smash generic Zerk+ShM squads, and be a bitch for snipers to kill. Stellas are a bitch to kill for everyone. Neither are supposed to be soloable as in the case that Battlestations, Rocs, Hives, and Delquads are not "supposed" to be soloed. Eventually, someone will solo them, but this person will probably be totally decked out in T22 gear flying a high end T22 setup...possibly even a T23 setup.
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Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:40 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Main: Stabberz Level: 2414 Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:55 am Posts: 3696 |
Max235 wrote: And then rebalance 75% of T20+ content. Not necessarily. We have two factors at work. 1. Snipers having low vis, long range, and enough damage to solo these AI 2. DG's that can only be solo'd by Snipers. Rather than focus on factor 1, a more elegant solution (at least short term) would be to make changes to the DG's that would make it harder for Snipers to do. E.G. pillboxes that increase firing visibility, higher radar strength AI, Giant Space Aliens spawning after a certain distance out, etc. Basically, special conditions forced upon the DG's that would put Snipers in a tough spot. Not saying that I mean to downplay Church's point or that these solutions are necessarily how I (hypothetically) would deal with the problem. _________________ Blue Dwarf wrote: In space, no one can hear you cha cha cha. |
Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:40 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Officer Main: Maxathron Level: 4065 Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:16 am Posts: 5804 |
75% of T20+ content, as clarified by SMW (a developer) is balanced around the DPS of fully decked out snipers for the tech level of the content. Therefore, even the proposed change to sniper analysis will result in a massive rebalance on most if not all of the content balanced on it.
The reason why snipers appeal to lesser players so much for DGing is that a sniper, without much effort, can out gun, range, and stealth virtually every normal DG ai, and with decent gear and experience can tackle some of the "supposed to not be soloable" bosses. Also can solo many of the T20 ubers naturally. A speed demon, fleet commander, or engineer can dg considerably better than a comparable level sniper. But you need quite a bit more skill, better gear, and have more experience than your lame duck sniper. |
Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:46 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Peon Main: Curse Level: 5572 Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:37 pm Posts: 1479 Location: Equestria |
but yet a shit sniper can still solo DGs that other classes of same power level cannot do, uber soloing and shit can be done because devs never know what they're doing when it comes to AI, first off, not many if any AI knows how to fight sniper, sniper can easily stealth and shoot stuff with their massive ammounts of damage, pretty simple to figure out. Ohms are a cake walk for sniper and same with just about anything else. why? because its fucking simple minded shit, go out 3k, shoot, if u dont break, go have a coffee/tea, come back, then when anal is up, shoot again and ul most likely break about anything. and ofc these ai all are weak to phys, lolz
_________________ http://tiny.cc/9hbj3w derpy is best pony most fun to play with wings ^_^ |
Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:23 am |
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Team:
Rank: Officer Main: Maxathron Level: 4065 Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:16 am Posts: 5804 |
The proposed analysis change will stop that. You will have to actively shoot the AI to build it, and a slight change to the firing vis of the PSS/PSS+ will prevent people from afking shooting them.
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Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:50 am |
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