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Team:
Rank: Director Main: Uhmari Level: 430 Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 2:18 pm Posts: 256 |
more pay to win.....
Yes / Signed |
Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:07 pm |
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Main: Lykesis
Level: 1177 Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:52 pm Posts: 604 |
Aug resets, ship itemforming and renaming do not give any 'statistical advantage' (and yes I just twisted your own words against you), therefore not pay to win.
So yeah, you have two choices, retract that statement or admit that your own facts on what is 'pay to win' are incorrect. _________________ |
Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:23 am |
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Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: LemonPrime Level: 8087 Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:14 pm Posts: 5747 |
Moonlightneo wrote: Aug resets, ship itemforming and renaming do not give any 'statistical advantage' (and yes I just twisted your own words against you), therefore not pay to win. So yeah, you have two choices, retract that statement or admit that your own facts on what is 'pay to win' are incorrect. I'll quote in case you're on ignore. He enjoys screenshotting what I have to say . (idiot) _________________ Lemon/Meo |
Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:51 am |
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Contributor
Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: Hober Mallow Level: 4888 Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm Posts: 3191 |
Not pay to win, paying for convenience. Its inconvenient to acquire something that you've already acquired all over again.
_________________ http://www.starsonata.com/suggestions |
Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:24 am |
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Team:
Rank: Councilor Main: DreadLordNaf Level: 12667 Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:33 am Posts: 677 |
In general I agree in concept that SS could both make players happier and increase their own revenue allowing them to be more successful and invest more in development if they revised their pricing schemes and specially add in "pay for convenience" and/or "pay for cosmetic" (name changes, ship colors, etc) features. But this assumes they have the back end capacity for all this. If they are so overworked and loaded right now that they can only handle X number of name change/aug resets a week, then lowering the price will only lower their revenue, if they are unable to actually process more.
But I do think their payment model is outdated. Games like Guild Wars, League of Legends and tons of other MMO's make millions and are funded purely through pay for convenience and/or cosmetic features. These games usually take great care to make sure there is no in-game statistical combat/material advantage from their pay features, so that the game is not pay-to-win and I think SS could achieve a simliar balance. I will be voting for your suggestion, but unfortunately I see the biggest hurdle to this the SS players themselves. I suggested something once like this and got a lot of push back. People irrationally see things like pay-for-convenience and even pay-for-cosmetics as pay-to-win since in their mind paying players are getting something they aren't. They cant wrap their heads around basic economics and think everything should be f2p. Also many people will oppose on principle. I recall when the Stront-90 missions were added in a lot of higher level players did not like this. They hated it because while it didnt take anything away from them, it made life a bit easier for p2per to level and in their mind "if they had to suffer and grind, then everyone else should have to also." These players would probably go ballistic if there were a way to pay to make the game more convenient. In their minds it would somehow diminish the suffering and annoyances they have endured over the years. |
Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:21 am |
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Contributor
Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: Hober Mallow Level: 4888 Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm Posts: 3191 |
dreadlordnaf wrote: In general I agree in concept that SS could both make players happier and increase their own revenue allowing them to be more successful and invest more in development if they revised their pricing schemes and specially add in "pay for convenience" and/or "pay for cosmetic" (name changes, ship colors, etc) features. But this assumes they have the back end capacity for all this. If they are so overworked and loaded right now that they can only handle X number of name change/aug resets a week, then lowering the price will only lower their revenue, if they are unable to actually process more. But I do think their payment model is outdated. Games like Guild Wars, League of Legends and tons of other MMO's make millions and are funded purely through pay for convenience and/or cosmetic features. These games usually take great care to make sure there is no in-game statistical combat/material advantage from their pay features, so that the game is not pay-to-win and I think SS could achieve a simliar balance. I will be voting for your suggestion, but unfortunately I see the biggest hurdle to this the SS players themselves. I suggested something once like this and got a lot of push back. People irrationally see things like pay-for-convenience and even pay-for-cosmetics as pay-to-win since in their mind paying players are getting something they aren't. They cant wrap their heads around basic economics and think everything should be f2p. Also many people will oppose on principle. I recall when the Stront-90 missions were added in a lot of higher level players did not like this. They hated it because while it didnt take anything away from them, it made life a bit easier for p2per to level and in their mind "if they had to suffer and grind, then everyone else should have to also." These players would probably go ballistic if there were a way to pay to make the game more convenient. In their minds it would somehow diminish the suffering and annoyances they have endured over the years. Admins have automated the process, when you use the space points the server handles the process. It costs them nothing to do this and lowering the price, and ADVERTISING IN GAME that they lowered the price would net them money from people with disposable income. Naysays have no say in this, because there is no logical or even rational reason to vote against it. It already exists, I'm asking the admins to make it more affordable so more people do it and they get more money. 5-10 people spending $10 each on item forming a ship isn't comparable to 50-100 people spending $5 each itemforming a ship, same idea for augs. _________________ http://www.starsonata.com/suggestions |
Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:06 am |
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Member
Team:
Rank: Officer Main: Getsuga Tenshou Level: 3762 Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 7:25 pm Posts: 1563 |
MasterTrader wrote: Naysays have no say in this Naysays asks why you want a price re-evaluation right before a heavy influx of new players when you know we'll probably only have one go at it? |
Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:08 pm |
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Contributor
Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: Hober Mallow Level: 4888 Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm Posts: 3191 |
LethalLoki wrote: MasterTrader wrote: Naysays have no say in this Naysays asks why you want a price re-evaluation right before a heavy influx of new players when you know we'll probably only have one go at it? Because we only have one go at it, and if the admins want a way to turn those new people into $$$ they need to make sure all of their ducks are in a row. More affordable/diverse cash shop options that don't feel like the game is trying to rip your wallet out of your pocket for convenience purchases is neccessary to foster goodwill with the casuals/potential hard core players. I have a friend who made steam wallet money selling favors during the DoTA2 events, and there were plenty of other people who did so as well. There are people who play games on Steam who have Steam money, and who are willing to make one time purchases if the purchase fits their fancy. If you have convenience purchases in the cash shop for $10-25 you are going to irk and piss off some stingy kid who might have spent Steam Wallet Money on the game. It doesn't matter that they can't withdraw that money and use it for other things, what matters is that money goes from Steam to Landauer Games, LLC. While some hard core members of the community may not want these filthy casuals in their game, keep in mind that people like that are more likely to spend actual money on things that make the game more fun for them. This is why I asked the admins to consider allowing Space Points to be traded between players in some sort of controlled way. Re-evaluating the prices in the cash shop is a step towards the dev team fleshing out Space Points. _________________ http://www.starsonata.com/suggestions |
Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:27 pm |
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Member
Team:
Rank: Officer Main: Getsuga Tenshou Level: 3762 Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 7:25 pm Posts: 1563 |
Dont get me wrong I am for this idea, the established rates were for non automated services... I just want to make sure it gets dropped to a fair amount rather than not enough & not considered for re-evaluation because it just recently was.
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Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:15 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: LemonPrime Level: 8087 Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:14 pm Posts: 5747 |
LethalLoki wrote: Dont get me wrong I am for this idea, the established rates were for non automated services... I just want to make sure it gets dropped to a fair amount rather than not enough & not considered for re-evaluation because it just recently was. Yea that sounds fair enough. With the automated system in, I can see this being much cheaper. But there isn't really a way to tell how much it costs to item form ships currently, or do anything. The items in FM just have listing of the Space Point cost right? I bet there is a high % of current p2p's who have no idea what Space Points are lol. _________________ Lemon/Meo |
Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:36 pm |
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Contributor
Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: Hober Mallow Level: 4888 Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm Posts: 3191 |
ELITE wrote: LethalLoki wrote: Dont get me wrong I am for this idea, the established rates were for non automated services... I just want to make sure it gets dropped to a fair amount rather than not enough & not considered for re-evaluation because it just recently was. Yea that sounds fair enough. With the automated system in, I can see this being much cheaper. But there isn't really a way to tell how much it costs to item form ships currently, or do anything. The items in FM just have listing of the Space Point cost right? I bet there is a high % of current p2p's who have no idea what Space Points are lol. Yes, yes, yes! You see my point EXACTLY! There are people who have no idea what Space Points are RIGHT NOW! This is the PERFECT chance for the admins to: - Fairly price their services - Let people know about Space Points/Cash Shop stuff - Get people comfortable with Space Points If it comes off as a cash grab there is only going to be bad blood between players and developers. How do you determine what a decent price is? Look at what larger game companies charge for automated services. The complaints people have about cash shops in other games stem from these things: 1) Reminding Free2Play players what idiots they are for not subscribing at every juncture OBSERVATION: SS doesn't do this, to the best of my knowledge, so they should be OK. 2) Promising things your shop doesn't deliver OBSERVATION: I don't think SS does this, and as long as they don't it should be fine. 3) Offering bundles that contain the same item so that it is not worth it to buy both bundles OBSERVATION: Things like this really piss people off, so if the dev team ever decides to offer more things (like skin bundles) DO NOT INCLUDE THE SAME SKINS IN MULTIPLE BUNDLES. 4) Confusing customers with lack of clarity and shady tricks of omission OBSERVATION: At present I don't think there is any lack of clarity. I don't have money to blow on Space Points, but when I do I'm going to buy some and use the items in Free Market to see how they work. I'll post feedback for the admins about it afterwards. 5) Giving them problems logging into your website, after they've decided they may want to buy something off you anyway OBSERVATION: Thankfully SS doesn't have any problems so thats cool. As I said, pricing is just a step towards making sure the cash shop itself is presentable. _________________ http://www.starsonata.com/suggestions |
Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:28 am |
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Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: LemonPrime Level: 8087 Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:14 pm Posts: 5747 |
It's also super hard to figure out how much things currently cost.
You can buy Space Points, and you get discounts for buying more. But all we know is that Item-Forming costs $10 through support tickets, or 20 Space Points. But you have to conjecture that yourself. Should just be a graphic saying how much each service is, in Space Points. _________________ Lemon/Meo |
Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:14 pm |
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Contributor
Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: Hober Mallow Level: 4888 Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm Posts: 3191 |
Any admin response? I also thought of a few more "tool" items that the admins could sell with space points, I'm willing to suggest them if the admins are open to it.
_________________ http://www.starsonata.com/suggestions |
Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:57 am |
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Team:
Rank: Peon Main: Mow Level: 9760 Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:57 pm Posts: 4731 Location: Kuratovo, Russia |
It shouldn't cost higher than a 1 month subscription to remove augmenters from a ship, so /signed.
_________________ |
Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:59 am |
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Contributor
Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: Hober Mallow Level: 4888 Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm Posts: 3191 |
5 billion years later. Lol.
_________________ http://www.starsonata.com/suggestions |
Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:38 am |
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