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Rank: Main: Gunslinger Myrtok Level: 2640 Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:43 am Posts: 1965 |
anilv wrote: Dorin Nube wrote: Those low / midrange players won't be able to defend well either. It takes massive resources in terms of EE bases and slaves to make all three levels of gear upgrades at once (which you have to do if you want Z bases within a month). I'm probably an upper-mid-range player. My EE is level 24, for example, and I have 5 decently developed alts with high SM / SR levels, all decked out with full complements of trade slaves, and lots of experience setting up the EE bases and trade slave network for efficiency. I'm not even close to getting enough resources to my 5 T20 bases to let them all build the 3 upgrades at the same time. Good thing I still have that ada gear for my StM, eh? I find this paragraph either disingenuous or misinformed. Roughly 10 million metals per day can be pulled from an average Loads source with a decently high level ExE, using only Tech 0-9 extractors. Are you really claiming that you can't find the slots for six T9 ExE kits to over-supply your five StM kits for a month? I can't take your arguments seriously if you insist to hold this sort of position. I'm never disingenuous (unless I'm obviously joking), but it's always possible that I'm misinformed, or maybe not quite as efficient as I thought I was. Here's the situation: My EE level is 24, so I'm not sure whether that counts as "decently high level" in your book, but I'm guessing it's high compared to the "mid-range" standard that we're aiming for here. With one account, 5 StM bases, and some low tech colo boosters and stuff I can do 7 or 8 T9 EE bases. You say each one on Loads of Mets should average 10 mil mets per day, and I'll take your word on that (I've never done the math). When you run all three upgrades at the same time, it uses 667 mets per tick and 333 silicon per tick (can't remember the nukes, but probably 111 or so if the pattern holds). How often is there a "tick" in the building queue? Is it every 5 seconds? If so, that's on the order of 11.5 million mets per day per StM base (times 5 for a typical account setup) if you want to get your bases upgraded within a month. Don't forget the nukes and silicon either. Generally I've had event messages about silicon needed, and if I get that increased, then the base starts to run out of mets, nukes, etc. Not every EE base can be on "Loads" of all three of those commods. In addition, there's the issue of transporting them all. I'm weak in the MFM department, so this problem may affect me more than some other players, but like I said, I'm definitely far ahead of what most would probably consider the "average" midrange player. I don't want to give the impression that I'm whining about myself here. I can "make do" with all of my old ada gear and what not if it takes my bases a bit longer to upgrade, so this system isn't hurting me much. I'm saying that the true "mid-range" players who don't have good pre-made gear and a full account of developed alts that this system was designed to help aren't going to have a chance. Enk wrote: Myrtok wrote: Those lower mid-range players who haven't built T18 / T20 gear yet get absolutely no help from this rebalance. There is no "instabuild" vanilla gear bp on the base (as was planned at some point), so they will have to put their old Andaman gear or something on it for at least the first week of the uni (one week IF they can get enough commods to upgrade their bases to the X that fast). It will be a minimum of 2 weeks before they're at the Y level, which is supposed to put them on par with the Ada bases their high-level attackers can use (up to 50 of them), but I really can't imagine a true mid-range player getting the upgrades done that fast, at least not at the T20 level. During that time right after reset when most conflict occurs, they can be killed easily. Junkyard kits are better than instabuild and Anda-Achilles gear is essentially instabuild. Unsure if you are willfully ignoring facts or just uninformed. I may be a bit uniformed here, but it's my understanding that the T20 junkyard kits come with Andaman gear installed, which takes us back to the problem of mid-range players being absolutely defenseless at reset time if some big bully team decides they're in the way. I understand that vanilla Achilles gear builds fast. Annihilator gear isn't even that bad if you make it in the middle of the uni and have the required building materials. I could be misinformed / misunderstanding, but I thought one of the big points of this major rebalance was so that the newer players didn't have to get that stuff built on some big team proddy base and buy / build sing spheres to store it all over a uni reset. I may be remembering incorrectly, but I thought the original plan was to have sticky vanilla gear BPs built into the stations and require only common commods. That would be a much bigger help to the newbies than the current system. _________________ pip8786 wrote: Dorin Nube... you win the best post on the forums ever award. Well done. HAL wrote: You are greedy and ignorant, you can't have everything in life for free. |
Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:46 am |
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Team:
Rank: Officer Main: Cirdan Level: 4246 Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:58 pm Posts: 29 Location: College Park, MD |
In reading the forum it was my understanding that the X Y Z base gear would be converted to normal gear. Except for 2 lasers that would be renamed something else. Also Superlaser BP still require Laser X to build them, so how can we build them if there no Laser X BP anymore?
Announcements Base Rebalance Update 2014·09·22 by yclepticon Since we are repurposing XYZ gear as disposable, we need to do something about currently-existing XYZ gear. When universe reset is taking place, we will go through and replace existing XYZ gear by the plain versions. But before you cry “nerf!” let me share with you some new stats. |
Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:46 pm |
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over 9000!
Main: enkelin
Level: 5600 Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:28 pm Posts: 11109 |
Dorin Nube wrote: I'm never disingenuous (unless I'm obviously joking), but it's always possible that I'm misinformed, or maybe not quite as efficient as I thought I was. Here's the situation: My EE level is 24, so I'm not sure whether that counts as "decently high level" in your book, but I'm guessing it's high compared to the "mid-range" standard that we're aiming for here. With one account, 5 StM bases, and some low tech colo boosters and stuff I can do 7 or 8 T9 EE bases. You say each one on Loads of Mets should average 10 mil mets per day, and I'll take your word on that (I've never done the math). When you run all three upgrades at the same time, it uses 667 mets per tick and 333 silicon per tick (can't remember the nukes, but probably 111 or so if the pattern holds). How often is there a "tick" in the building queue? Is it every 5 seconds? If so, that's on the order of 11.5 million mets per day per StM base (times 5 for a typical account setup) if you want to get your bases upgraded within a month. Don't forget the nukes and silicon either. Generally I've had event messages about silicon needed, and if I get that increased, then the base starts to run out of mets, nukes, etc. Not every EE base can be on "Loads" of all three of those commods. In addition, there's the issue of transporting them all. I'm weak in the MFM department, so this problem may affect me more than some other players, but like I said, I'm definitely far ahead of what most would probably consider the "average" midrange player. I don't want to give the impression that I'm whining about myself here. I can "make do" with all of my old ada gear and what not if it takes my bases a bit longer to upgrade, so this system isn't hurting me much. I'm saying that the true "mid-range" players who don't have good pre-made gear and a full account of developed alts that this system was designed to help aren't going to have a chance. It sounds like you are pretty strapped for ExE/MFM support. Although with the stuff you have I think it should be possible to support 5 StM XYZ builds as long as you are careful about where you deploy your ExE kits. On the other hand, you could use T16 or T18 Ada kits instead. I dropped some T16 Ada kits this uni and noticed that the resource requirement for Anda Z gear is MUCH less than it is for Anni Z gear. Going off the stats Markoz posted (since I don't have any Anda Z gear built yet) it looks like they are pretty competitive too. I may be a bit uniformed here, but it's my understanding that the T20 junkyard kits come with Andaman gear installed, which takes us back to the problem of mid-range players being absolutely defenseless at reset time if some big bully team decides they're in the way. I understand that vanilla Achilles gear builds fast. Annihilator gear isn't even that bad if you make it in the middle of the uni and have the required building materials. Well, it's a touchy balance to strike. You don't want insta-geared kits to be too strong since they could tip the balance unfairly in a galaxy assault. Traders did some unintentional stress testing of the new kits this reset and our conclusion at least was that they are pretty handy without being overpowered. I do not personally think it's a big problem if lower level players get pushed around by the big guys on the first few days of a new uni. If anything, some degree of that is necessary in order to preserve the competitiveness of the land grab. The way I see it, less accomplished players can do their best impression of Lando Calrissian and carve out a relatively profitable but unassuming area of space for themselves, lay low for a while, and hopefully get some upgraded gear installed over time. I could be misinformed / misunderstanding, but I thought one of the big points of this major rebalance was so that the newer players didn't have to get that stuff built on some big team proddy base and buy / build sing spheres to store it all over a uni reset. I may be remembering incorrectly, but I thought the original plan was to have sticky vanilla gear BPs built into the stations and require only common commods. That would be a much bigger help to the newbies than the current system. To me it seems like you are describing exactly what we got with XYZ gear bps. _________________ Hi, I'm Anil, a long-time player turned developer. I am Star Sonata's lead content developer, which means that I run weekly dev meetings and make sure that any proposed changes to the game receive proper review before going live. http://www.starsonata.com/features |
Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:53 pm |
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Member
Team:
Rank: Main: Rhys Level: 3919 Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:57 pm Posts: 701 |
fnordhorn wrote: In reading the forum it was my understanding that the X Y Z base gear would be converted to normal gear. Except for 2 lasers that would be renamed something else. Also Superlaser BP still require Laser X to build them, so how can we build them if there no Laser X BP anymore? Announcements Base Rebalance Update 2014·09·22 by yclepticon Since we are repurposing XYZ gear as disposable, we need to do something about currently-existing XYZ gear. When universe reset is taking place, we will go through and replace existing XYZ gear by the plain versions. But before you cry “nerf!” let me share with you some new stats. Indeed it seems some of the gear didn't quite make the translation into the vanilla version, but that is likely a problem of execution. I'd think the admins do intend to fix this, hopefully soon(TM)? _________________ The fundamental difference between a trader and an investor - an investment, from a trader's perspective, is a trade gone bad. |
Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:07 am |
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Member
Team:
Rank: Officer Main: topbuzzz Level: 8015 Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:31 pm Posts: 4347 |
Would a pre rebalance base with ablatives survive better than a post rebalance base without ablatives?
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Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:42 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Officer Main: LemonPrime Level: 8127 Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:14 pm Posts: 5747 |
sabre198 wrote: Would a pre rebalance base with ablatives survive better than a post rebalance base without ablatives? Depends, do either bases have Dampeners _________________ Lemon/Meo |
Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:54 pm |
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Main: The Vert
Level: 60 Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:30 am Posts: 1239 |
Hello guys As many of you know, we intended to replace X, Y and Z versions of basegear with regular base gear. Sadly, this will not be happening. The items can be disposed of by selling them to AI bases
_________________ Important bug reporting information: Please check these Bug report guidelines before you make your first bug report, or if you are uncertain on how to do it. |
Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:22 am |
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Member
Team:
Rank: Officer Main: topbuzzz Level: 8015 Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:31 pm Posts: 4347 |
so how did you manage to change the achillles Z laser then but not the other gear?
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Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:50 am |
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Team:
Rank: Officer Main: LemonPrime Level: 8127 Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:14 pm Posts: 5747 |
The Vert wrote: Hello guys As many of you know, we intended to replace X, Y and Z versions of basegear with regular base gear. Sadly, this will not be happening. The items can be disposed of by selling them to AI bases so like, why not _________________ Lemon/Meo |
Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:55 am |
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Member
Team:
Rank: Officer Main: topbuzzz Level: 8015 Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:31 pm Posts: 4347 |
because the "wise ones" say XZY gear was worthless anyway, so is of no loss to people who spent time building it.
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Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:59 am |
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Team:
Rank: Officer Main: LemonPrime Level: 8127 Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:14 pm Posts: 5747 |
sabre198 wrote: because the "wise ones" say XZY gear was worthless anyway, so is of no loss to people who spent time building it. i do enjoy this new meme _________________ Lemon/Meo |
Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:54 pm |
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Contributor
Team:
Rank: Councilor Main: Hober Mallow Level: 4989 Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm Posts: 3191 |
sabre198 wrote: because the "wise ones" say XZY gear was worthless anyway, so is of no loss to people who spent time building it. "It's so cheap, why are you complaining about not being able to build good bases? You're just lazy, its soooo cheap." Glad someone else remembers all of that lol. _________________ http://www.starsonata.com/suggestions |
Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:44 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Councilor Main: Llessur Level: 4171 Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:26 pm Posts: 902 Location: Feilding, New Zealand |
QUESTION
How am I to build XYZ gear on bases that Lack Materials? In the past I could just deploy the gear from my storage, or if I have to build them I would just build them in my proddy. Now I have to build them insitu and that involves hauling large to huge amounts of material around. That takes EXTRA HOURS of game time and/or ties up scares shipping resources. BTW pity the players not building in high warp 3 How the hell do you get the materials you need when all you have is a BIT of this and a BUNCH of that This is just crazy! We dont need this! Make the XYZ gear transportabel again |
Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:55 pm |
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over 9000!
Main: enkelin
Level: 5600 Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:28 pm Posts: 11109 |
Russell wrote: QUESTION How am I to build XYZ gear on bases that Lack Materials? In the past I could just deploy the gear from my storage, or if I have to build them I would just build them in my proddy. Now I have to build them insitu and that involves hauling large to huge amounts of material around. That takes EXTRA HOURS of game time and/or ties up scares shipping resources. BTW pity the players not building in high warp 3 How the hell do you get the materials you need when all you have is a BIT of this and a BUNCH of that This is just crazy! We dont need this! Make the XYZ gear transportabel again I used some Ada T16 kits this uni and the resource requirement was quite reasonable for Anda XYZ gear. It seems ok to me that people who are using T20 kits should be prepared to contest high DF warp 3 galaxies for the resource abundance there. That's not to mention that there are about 100 such galaxies unclaimed right around Traders space this uni. _________________ Hi, I'm Anil, a long-time player turned developer. I am Star Sonata's lead content developer, which means that I run weekly dev meetings and make sure that any proposed changes to the game receive proper review before going live. http://www.starsonata.com/features |
Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:00 pm |
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Contributor
Team:
Rank: Councilor Main: Hober Mallow Level: 4989 Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm Posts: 3191 |
The wise ones said that it wasn't hard to ship resources, you should go and prostrate yourself before them Russell. They may take pity on you and share their wisdom.
_________________ http://www.starsonata.com/suggestions |
Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:05 pm |
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